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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I never felt I was a slave or in bondage. As far as eternal life goes, most practicing Christians will tell you we don't know exactly what that is, but a lot of people believe that eternal life starts in this life. It does not mean necessarily that you go to heaven and live it up, but that if you follow the laws, you become closer to God, happiness, peace, and contentment and that when you sin you separate yourself from God. This is my complaint about Christianity though. I don't know if it is the religions fault or the people's interpretation, but somehow people equate forgiveness to no consequences or justice and I am glad I am bringing this up and talking about this because I have read before (I can't remember where) that God wants justice and it is the evil minded who do not.
    You already speak like a muslim.

    The Christian God is a God of love, while Allah is a God of justice. But now the paradox is that the most unjust and unfair societies of the world are most of the time Muslim. It's a more extreme world, where slaves and billionaires can live in the same street, breathe the same air and supposedly share the same religion.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Well, the issues about "sex, money, exploitation, worldly concerns" are far worst and more hypocritical within the muslim world.

    Muslims are supposed to help each other, and especially the poors and the destitutes. But when you're in Dubai, you have the ultimate proof that it's total bullshit. You know the rule with imams: the more devout they seem, the more hypocritical and manipulative they really are.
    Sex, money, exploitation. What I mean by that is in the U.S., women are on billboards; divorces, adultery, infidelity, and money is often mixed into this. People wanting to climb to the top at work, sacrificing everything decent to get there. People lowering their spiritual standards to have these things.

    If even in Dubai and Qatar where I have also been, people do not have these issues correlated with wealth, then I don't see wealth to be a problem. But I do understand what you are saying and they may have some problems connected with it also, but still, I feel like they are better off.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I actually agree with you on that. I feel like Muslims are more respectful towards women. But I will say that I don't think Iraqi men treat women like dirt anymore than many other Muslims. I was there for a year.
    You're wrong. In Iraq, women are not treated like dirt, they are treated like trash, like a sub-human specie or like herd animals. In Saudi Arabia, it's even worst.

    But it's more related to local culture than Islam per se. In many other parts of the muslim world (for instance Western Africa, central Asia or Indonesia), the fate of women is much better -even if nothing is granted-.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You already speak like a muslim.

    The Christian God is a God of love, while Allah is a God of justice. But now the paradox is that the most unjust and unfair societies of the world are most of the time Muslim. It's a more extreme world, where slaves and billionaires can live in the same street, breathe the same air and supposedly share the same religion.
    Why do you believe that the Christian God does not believe in justice? What is cruel about that?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Sex, money, exploitation. What I mean by that is in the U.S., women are on billboards; divorces, adultery, infidelity, and money is often mixed into this. People wanting to climb to the top at work, sacrificing everything decent to get there. People lowering their spiritual standards to have these things.

    If even in Dubai and Qatar where I have also been, people do not have these issues correlated with wealth, then I don't see wealth to be a problem. But I do understand what you are saying and they may have some problems connected with it also, but still, I feel like they are better off.
    In many ways, Dubai is worst than Las Vegas, more superficial, more indecent.

    And yes, inequalities are the major issues. That's why you have revolutions, that's why people are so upset. When you are an Emirati or a Saudi prince, you already have hundreds of slave-girls at your immediate disposal. And for them, divorce is not an option, they simply do not have the choice. So don't speak about adultery, infidelity or even "spiritual standards" after this...

    It's all a tragic joke!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You're wrong. In Iraq, women are not treated like dirt, they are treated like trash, like a sub-human specie or like herd animals. In Saudi Arabia, it's even worst.

    But it's more related to local culture than Islam per se. In many other parts of the muslim world (for instance Western Africa, central Asia or Indonesia), the fate of women is much better -even if nothing is granted-.
    What gives you the idea that women in Iraq are treated like trash? I know many women who are happy with their lifestyle in Iraq and in many other Muslim countries too.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    In many ways, Dubai is worst than Las Vegas.

    And yes, inequalities are the major issues. That's why you have revolutions, that's why people are so upset.
    But I don't see strip clubs on every corner in Dubai.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Holy crap, are you kidding me. (also, good call, @Riva)

    In that case, absolutely never assume that a man who has the power to get away with having other wives wouldn't go for it just because he once said so. That's not how things work.
    True.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    But I don't see strip clubs on every corner in Dubai.
    It's because you haven't searched where you should. Prostitution is everywhere, even in Dubai.

    You also have places in Dubai where women (sometimes nubile ones) are tortured or raped in the open, just to please their rich masters. Seek what happens to young Bengladeshi or Filipino women there. So I don't know if Las Vegas strip clubs are better: at last women there are not supposed to get hurt, and are protected by the US law.

    In Dubai or in Saudi Arabia, when a woman gets raped, most of the time she will be condemned instead of her aggressors. It says a lot.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It's because you haven't searched where you should. Prostitution is everywhere, even in Dubai.

    You also have places in Dubai where women (sometimes nubile ones) are tortured or raped in the open, just to please their rich master. Seek what happens to young Bengladeshi or Filipino women there. So I don't know if Las Vegas strip clubs are better: at last women there are not supposed to get hurt, and are protected by the US law.

    In Dubai or in Saudi Arabia, if a woman gets raped, most of the time she will be condemned instead of her aggressors. It says a lot.
    I know there is prostitution in Muslim countries, but it is nothing like the U.S.

    As far as the rape/ torture thing, you are putting one extreme example out there into the box with all Muslims?

    I am pretty sure the religion doesn't condone murdering someone for being raped. I am not at all agreeing to it, but you should consider why that rare problem arises. If you look at the values in their culture, you can see why people are so disturbed over it. Women are held to being the ultimate matriarchal figure, who are kept clean and pure and they do place a lot of responsibility on her not to be in a situation that it could happen. Of course nobody's plans to protect their self from such cruelty are 100% fool proof and the guy should be punished. But again, we don't know enough about it to be the basis for making harsh statements about Islam.

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