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  1. #41
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    @Newbyagain

    This'll probably be my last post in this thread because I've already stated my case as well as I can:
    If you're unclear about what aspects of Christianity are people-related vs. religion-related, you NEED to either talk to experts/holy (wo)men, do some reading (St. Augustine? Martin Luther?), or both. You can't judge "how Christians are" until you've done that.

    Before you make your decision, you need to be as certain as you can be. And that certainty cannot be built on bad information, because I guarantee that house won't stand. This is too important for anything less.

    So, my last thought here is: Please, for the love of God -- literally -- step back and think about what you're doing. Because your current modus operandi seems dangerously sloppy and haphazard.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Have you considered living with the Hare Krishna instead?

    They have a very strict amount of structure, follow a strict diet, chant a particular number of times a day, and essentially say that Hare Krishna literally translates to Christ Come.

    Some people call it Hinduism for Christians, it would give you the structure you crave, with less jihad.

    Not that all of Islam is bad, but your desperate need for structure seems like it would make you vulnerable to extremism.
    No I do not want to do the branches of Christianity. I like places with more rules. I don't want to be apart of a place where people say the interpretation is completely up to however you want. Of course we all need to come to our own conclusion about the Bible, but with the help of people who are experienced in it. I don't like going to church with people announcing all over the place things they are doing that they should not be doing and using wacky interpretations of scripture to excuse it. That is one purpose in community, that people will be strong enough to call out unacceptable behavior. I just don't see that in a lot of branches. I see stubbornness.

    I would rather find more out about Jihad before we are sure that there is this evilness behind it.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    I don't really understand you. I've already lived in a few muslim countries, and I'd say that 99% of them do not really practise what their religion said (and most of the times, it is fortunate!). I don't find the muslim world to be especially structured, unless, of course, you've met dangerous extremist sectarians (like the wahhabites). Just like Kyuuei said, the local culture can wildly affect the way Islam is preached. Islam can be either quite tolerant and progressive (Mali, Morocco) or completely insane and xenophobic (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia), it has lots of different faces, most of them contradicting each other -that's why the worst ennemy of a muslim is, most of the time, another muslim-. Despite all the propaganda, there's no real unity within the muslim world, and most of the muslim sects will try to use you for mere political reasons rather than things like "spirituality" -unless, of course, you consider reading the Sufis-
    Of course, nobody completely practices what their religion teaches, because nobody is flawless and Muslims believe this too. But consider that most people are not divorcing and there is a bigger dedication with prayer and covering yourself to prevent temptation, you just don't see this with very many Christians. I will give credit that there are some Christians who spend a lot of time praying, but you still have the same problems over and over and over and over again; sex, money, exploitation, worldly concerns. It doesn't stop in the Christian culture that I experience here in the states. I can't keep on living in this never ending battle and truly give up the lifestyle that condones these things on my own. I need to be around other people who see this flaw.

  4. #44
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Ok I thought I was done, but I have another question:

    What's keeping you from joining a community of Muslims and remaining Christian?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  5. #45
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    Oh, and I meant to say this somewhere, but I am sure that Islam was created by God, because he sent Ishmael there to be the leader of many nations. I am just saying that for the people who are Christian and have this insensitivity or lack of respect for the religion. I think God wanted great things for Ishmael since him and his mother were used and rejected. My only issue is really Christ's place all of this. I know Muslims believe he was a prophet, but I don't want to make the mistake of denouncing that he was the son of God if he really was.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Ok I thought I was done, but I have another question:

    What's keeping you from joining a community of Muslims and remaining Christian?
    I didn't really think that was possible. I know I could become friends with some, but I don't think I could really be apart of the religion without at least eventually converting.

  7. #47
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I didn't really think that was possible. I know I could become friends with some, but I don't think I could really be apart of the religion without at least eventually converting.
    There's a difference between becoming part of the community and part of the religion. (When I say "community", I don't mean the umma. Should have been clearer.)

    Depending on how liberal they are, I don't see how they'd have a problem with you joining them for spiritual discussion and worship. Many of your values would be the same and you'd have a lot in common -- and even in the worst case scenario, they'd respect you as a person of the Book.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    How do you mean this?
    Because there are a lot of Muslims who are very passionate about what they believe in, plus it's at least a little bit of an unfamiliar territory. I also know Muslims are mostly very private people, making even more unknown. I am saying, my intuition tells me to be careful. If I get involved in this community and then decide not to convert even, I need to be thoughtful about how this may be taken. Just like going into a new country, you are scared and you don't know how things will go, so until you get a good feel for things, you keep your mouth shut and stay on guard.

  9. #49
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Of course, nobody completely practices what their religion teaches, because nobody is flawless and Muslims believe this too. But consider that most people are not divorcing and there is a bigger dedication with prayer and covering yourself to prevent temptation, you just don't see this with very many Christians. I will give credit that there are some Christians who spend a lot of time praying, but you still have the same problems over and over and over and over again; sex, money, exploitation, worldly concerns. It doesn't stop in the Christian culture that I experience here in the states. I can't keep on living in this never ending battle and truly give up the lifestyle that condones these things on my own. I need to be around other people who see this flaw.
    Well, the issues about "sex, money, exploitation, worldly concerns" are far worst and more hypocritical within the muslim world.

    Muslims are supposed to help each other, and especially the poors and the destitutes. But when you're in Dubai, you have the ultimate proof that it's total bullshit. You know the rule with imams: the more devout they seem, the more hypocritical and manipulative they really are.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    If you're looking at the whole 'practice what you preach'.. the Koran gives more scripts and favorable mentions to women on respecting them than Jewish or Christian texts combined. (I'd give a quote, but that was in our textbook in school and confirmed by a girl in our class) The problem is? The culture doesn't always equate to the religion. Iraqi men treated their women like shit. They treated every single woman like a piece of property.
    I actually agree with you on that. I feel like Muslims are more respectful towards women. But I will say that I don't think Iraqi men treat women like dirt anymore than many other Muslims. I was there for a year.

    Thanks for the rest of the advice. That's true.

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