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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Thanks. That is a good idea. The only thing is, I don't feel like I could live in a convent and give myself away to a religion who I feel is ultimately not as successful as I think they could be.
    Why are you idealizing Islam? I'm curious as to why you think they are all they could be when they are also divided by interpretation, and are still human beings.

    The most highly organized Christian faith is Catholicism. Have you looked at the RCIA?

    To me it seems like you don't know the real difference between a Catholic and a Protestant (the reason I did NOT join the Catholic church was for the precise reason of the thing you want: RULES. Even though I admire their intellectually rigorous theologians. The Lutheran Church, even the Missouri Synod, does not have as many rules).

    Why do you think Muslims are less divided or have less interpretation in their faith?

  2. #112
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Thanks. That is a good idea. The only thing is, I don't feel like I could live in a convent and give myself away to a religion who I feel is ultimately not as successful as I think they could be.
    It is really hard to get a lot of negative feedback--especially from non-muslims for the majority of this thread--on something that draws the attention. Please consider these challenges being thrown your way as just that. If they are making you defensive and aggravated, inspect whether the reason behind it is true to your cause or if it is tearing a part your ideas that you were taking comfort in. It is uncomfortable having to explain yourself to a majority that thinks you ought to re-consider. But.. that's probably a good thing in the long run.

    Anyways. As far as this post goes. Consider for a second.. How does something get better when it lacks people who want to press it into higher standards? If something is in bad shape.. people either walk away from it and look for something more suitable, or they spend time and effort trying to fix it. The former is usually easier--but more costly and sometimes results in loss instead of gain. The latter results in hardships, and struggle, and over a longer period of time and going without, but frequently produces a desired product.

    Imagine where Christianity would be today if Martin Luther, for example, had decided to reject Christianity for its flaws instead of aiming to fix it. He believed--just not in the men that were destroying what he believed. Someone else would have taken his place eventually, I am sure of that.. but where would we be *now* after a delay in such ideas hitting when they did?
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  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    That is not my issue, but how I can make better choices with the help of community.
    What about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

    They'll also give you a lot of community, rules, and they keep a watch over each other. This way you also don't have to go live on an isolated farm or in a convent to get that sense of invasive community you so desire.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Oh yes, they are. Are you a Missouri or Wisconsin Synod? If so, your church is doubtlessly already pretty conservative, but I'll have you know if you're Evangelical Lutheran you are in one of the most (almost ridiculously) liberal churches in the country.

    So if an Evangelical Lutheran church is your problem, the Missouri or Wisconsin synods would be more conservative, and still then there is not as much structure or "rules" as Catholicism, which follows the apostolic tradition and the pope for guidance and interpretation.

    If Amish isn't a good fit for you please tell me why you think a religion that you hardly even know about or agree with is a good fit just because you perceive it as being stricter or having more community.
    Haha. Yes! I am LCMS. Our nose is seriously turned up when it comes to the ELCAs. Haha. Yes, they are very liberal. I don't even know how they fall under being Lutheran, but that could be a whole nother discussion, probably one I'll avoid on here. :/

    Well I just know I am hugely not into the Amish thing. I remember from the first day I ever read about them, I was a little turned off. I can't remember all of the reasons why, but I definitely give them props on having the discipline that they do. One big reason I can remember though is because I don't want to completely isolate myself from the rest of the world. I also think I remember they were the ones who ban people from going to church and make people pretty much walk around in public shame for their sins by wearing a tag or something on their shirt??? Don't take what I said as gold because I may be confusing that part with the other religion that is similar to them. Either way it wouldn't be a good fit.

    The last part, as of right now I don't know if it would be a good fit, but I know I love reading Muslim quotes, I like being around Muslim people, I definitely do agree and relate to a lot of their virtues and my intuition tells me it could possibly be what is right for me. But again, I don't know yet.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    What about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

    They'll also give you a lot of community, rules, and they keep a watch over each other. This way you also don't have to go live on an isolated farm or in a convent to get that sense of invasive community you so desire.
    I definitely don't see LDS as being in any kind of the same boat as Islam.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    I definitely don't see LDS as being in any kind of the same boat as Islam.
    What is it about Islam that attracts you away from all forms of Christianity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It is really hard to get a lot of negative feedback--especially from non-muslims for the majority of this thread--on something that draws the attention. Please consider these challenges being thrown your way as just that. If they are making you defensive and aggravated, inspect whether the reason behind it is true to your cause or if it is tearing a part your ideas that you were taking comfort in. It is uncomfortable having to explain yourself to a majority that thinks you ought to re-consider. But.. that's probably a good thing in the long run.

    Anyways. As far as this post goes. Consider for a second.. How does something get better when it lacks people who want to press it into higher standards? If something is in bad shape.. people either walk away from it and look for something more suitable, or they spend time and effort trying to fix it. The former is usually easier--but more costly and sometimes results in loss instead of gain. The latter results in hardships, and struggle, and over a longer period of time and going without, but frequently produces a desired product.

    Imagine where Christianity would be today if Martin Luther, for example, had decided to reject Christianity for its flaws instead of aiming to fix it. He believed--just not in the men that were destroying what he believed. Someone else would have taken his place eventually, I am sure of that.. but where would we be *now* after a delay in such ideas hitting when they did?
    True. I often thought that maybe the issue I see, this could be my calling to stay and help, but I feel that if I stay, I am going to fall apart in the process, eventually I wont have anything to give back.

    Yes, I knew there were going to be problems with this thread, but I am looking to get these questions answered and I am having trouble finding Muslims. Don't know where they are... So I thought I would try here.

    But yes, thank you for the reminder. Maybe if I stay and find my own way of doing what I see fit and help and give back, it will benefit myself and others and we can grow from there. I will still keep that in mind, but I have to continue investigating this. Michael Jackson is actually an inspiration when I think about that. He went and lived in a Muslim country and wore the female head coverings and I'm pretty sure he never converted. I think he just did what he felt worked for him and I admire him for that. But with his status, I think it's possible people of both cultures allowed him more so to be different without having to commit, and which I do want to be committed.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    What is it about Islam that attracts you away from all forms of Christianity?
    Hmmm... well I like that Muslim women are modest mostly for starts, and men too, but that stems with all of the other things that are important to me. I remember somewhere in the Bible, if somebody knows the scripture I am talking about that would be great, it says women should have their hair or face covered in church. It also says that women shouldn't teach men. So in that case, it seems the Bible teaches the same thing, but a large amount of Christians don't follow it. I don't know why Muslims follow that law and Christians don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    True. I often thought that maybe the issue I see, this could be my calling to stay and help, but I feel that if I stay, I am going to fall apart in the process, eventually I wont have anything to give back.

    Yes, I knew there were going to be problems with this thread, but I am looking to get these questions answered and I am having trouble finding Muslims. Don't know where they are... So I thought I would try here.
    I'm sure current social stigmas don't help the search.

    But yes, thank you for the reminder. Maybe if I stay and find my own way of doing what I see fit and help and give back, it will benefit myself and others and we can grow from there. I will still keep that in mind, but I have to continue investigating this. Michael Jackson is actually an inspiration when I think about that. He went and lived in a Muslim country and wore the female head coverings and I'm pretty sure he never converted. I think he just did what he felt worked for him and I admire him for that. But with his status, I think it's possible people of both cultures allowed him more so to be different without having to commit, and which I do want to be committed.
    Changes don't have to be vast. You can make a huge difference and influence in a small community, and change the lives immediately around you. That itself would do wonders to calm the feeling of struggle. But, there's a chance you'll never find what you are seeking--because you might be seeking more from people than they can possibly offer.

    There are many similarities between Islam and Christianity scripture wise. I am sure you could find a community to learn in without needing to convert right away. Similarly, I am almost positive you can with some dedicated research find a Christian community who actually aligns with the beliefs you are feeling and strives for the standards you are seeking.
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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbyagain View Post
    Hmmm... well I like that Muslim women are modest mostly for starts, and men too, but that stems with all of the other things that are important to me. I remember somewhere in the Bible, if somebody knows the scripture I am talking about that would be great, it says women should have their hair or face covered in church. It also says that women shouldn't teach men. So in that case, it seems the Bible teaches the same thing, but a large amount of Christians don't follow it. I don't know why Muslims follow that law and Christians don't.
    Actually there are many Christian churches where women are not allowed to be pastors, including the Catholic church. Women in the Catholic church were required to wear head covering until the 1970s and there's no reason why you still couldn't during a traditional mass, I think it would be looked upon more kindly at mass than during a Protestant church service. You could be a Traditionalist Catholic.

    You could also become Eastern Orthodox or less likely Russian Orthodox, they cover their heads. I'd become Orthodox before Muslim, because to me your decision does not seem to be soundly based in theology, just with your concerns with what you view as immodesty or lack of conservatism in some Christian churches.

    It's interesting that you're Lutheran, because Martin Luther actually advised women to continue wearing veils, they just don't in the West because of cultural trends.

    One of the reasons I suggested the Amish was because to me they actually seem like the most similar Christian group to Muslims in the United States, not just because of modesty and structure, but because they literally live apart from modern ways, and this living apart from modern ways has had a heavy influence on Islam in Asia, which is why you see such conservatism coming from there.

    And clearly, that kind of thing also has its downsides.

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