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  1. #11
    Riva
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    Patience is good but not when it comes to relationships. OA said it best. Infact she has to be thanked for explaining the logic behind women being attracted to cofident males which is valuing/being valued.

  2. #12
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Patience is good but not when it comes to relationships. OA said it best. Infact she has to be thanked for explaining the logic behind women being attracted to cofident males which is valuing/being valued.
    What she said could be true for many, but I think different types of girls warrant different approaches. With the particularly beautiful ones, their guards are always up because they know guys are only into them for the beauty. Sometimes they want nothing more than to be the one to do the chasing.

  3. #13
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    So I had one of the best conversations of my entire life 2 nights ago. I have had this neighbor for a long time, she is 45 and divorced. We have always been friendly with each other, even hung out a bit, but we never knew each other that well. Then again, I barely ever knew anyone that well.

    I have been patient, though with this relationship, whereas I was not before. Every so often I used to visit her and keep up appearances and make some glossy chit-chat. In January, I stopped. She came over to check and see if I was okay once, and I basically refused to speak, but she still hung out with me for a couple hours and made me laugh despite myself.

    The other day we were sitting at the pool together. Time has passed and I am talking to her a little more now, but it is much more sincere than it ever was. We had dinner together and then smoked some weed on her balcony and had simply the deepest conversation I have ever had with another person. I know that with the weed it was cheating a little, but hey I have smoked a million times before and while it does make conversation more interesting, this was still by far a breakthrough. I found out things about her she would never tell anyone, and she found out similar things about me. It was sharing like I have never shared before. We also at some point took a joyride on some country roads while blasting classic rock. Perfect day, windows down, no talking at that point just enjoying life...

    But the point of this is that I never would have expected that this would work initially. I basically stopped talking to her for months. Even when she came over I was completely aloof and dejected. Somehow, though, it all pulled through and things have worked out so much better than I would have ever thought they could.

  4. #14
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    There is a time and place for everything, aye.

    I'd trade my patience in for tenacity any day of the week.
    I think patience is a great thing, and sometimes necessary.

    However, if I were to share life wisdom as a woman in her 40's, in general tenacity is more important. You want to succeed at something? Throw more stuff at the wall, and eventually something will stick. Or use a multi-pronged approach -- spend about 50% of your energy on one or two targetted efforts, then use the other 50% to scattershot everything.

    The problem with the purely wait/targetted approach is that it's far more likely someone with even more patience and skill (or someone who is just shooting at everything!) will snipe your target out from under you. There's always someone either better or luckier out there.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #15
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think patience is a great thing, and sometimes necessary.

    However, if I were to share life wisdom as a woman in her 40's, in general tenacity is more important. You want to succeed at something? Throw more stuff at the wall, and eventually something will stick. Or use a multi-pronged approach -- spend about 50% of your energy on one or two targetted efforts, then use the other 50% to scattershot everything.

    The problem with the purely wait/targetted approach is that it's far more likely someone with even more patience and skill (or someone who is just shooting at everything!) will snipe your target out from under you. There's always someone either better or luckier out there.
    That just means not enough patience. The universe provides abundantly. Favorable conditions always arise eventually, no matter what. It's like a law. The only thing that can stop you from seeing that, IMO, is thinking you want things that you do not actually want. This requires a surrender of the conscious mind to the subconscious... or the brain to the gut. The latter is vastly larger and overpowering, but quiet, while the former is tiny but loud.

    This is what I am talking about with "listening." Repeatedly trying "different" things to achieve some goal is really just a refusal to ask yourself if that vision is really what you want. I've seen this so many times in my life. I tried a million ways to be a good teacher. I tried a million ways to be a good son. I tried a million ways to fit in. I tried a million ways to get girls. Never for a moment during that time did I simply stop and let go of them and listen to who I was, without regard to outcome. In the end, maybe I'll get some of those things and maybe I won't, but I am assured that whatever happens will be right, because I believe in who I am.

  6. #16
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    That just means not enough patience. The universe provides abundantly. Favorable conditions always arise eventually, no matter what. It's like a law. The only thing that can stop you from seeing that, IMO, is thinking you want things that you do not actually want. This requires a surrender of the conscious mind to the subconscious... or the brain to the gut. The latter is vastly larger and overpowering, but quiet, while the former is tiny but loud.

    This is what I am talking about with "listening." Repeatedly trying "different" things to achieve some goal is really just a refusal to ask yourself if that vision is really what you want. I've seen this so many times in my life. I tried a million ways to be a good teacher. I tried a million ways to be a good son. I tried a million ways to fit in. I tried a million ways to get girls. Never for a moment during that time did I simply stop and let go of them and listen to who I was, without regard to outcome. In the end, maybe I'll get some of those things and maybe I won't, but I am assured that whatever happens will be right, because I believe in who I am.
    I have agreed with every single one of your posts on this thread. I don't believe you're being picky, you are waiting for the right opportunity to strike...AND YOU WILL KNOW WHEN IT'S RIGHT! It will feel like the whole universe has come together at that very moment and all you've worked or waited for has paid off. Don't let anyone discourage you from that path cause it's waaay easier to wait than work...lol When I read the first post you wrote, it really resembles my thoughts as well. And if it didn't work out it's not meant to be. Everything that people consider "suffering" is merely contrast...how could you better find out what you like, then from what you don't like. So just learn to enjoy the process. All people are looking for is the wonderful FEELINGS in life...if money or relationships didn't bring us joy then all that's left is the feeling. So learn to love exactly where you are at any moment, with whomever you're with and you've just got the equation to enjoying life. Keep up your posts...I'm diggin what's in your head
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  7. #17
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    I don't think we're talking about the same things.

    Anyway, your approach is your own, and all that matters is that you take responsibility for however you choose to approach life. If you are happy with your approach, then enjoy it; if you find yourself unhappy, then it is up to you to change it. Being aware of what you want and how you are responding to things is part of that determination... in that much, at least, we agree.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I have agreed with every single one of your posts on this thread. I don't believe you're being picky, you are waiting for the right opportunity to strike...AND YOU WILL KNOW WHEN IT'S RIGHT! It will feel like the whole universe has come together at that very moment and all you've worked or waited for has paid off. Don't let anyone discourage you from that path cause it's waaay easier to wait than work...lol When I read the first post you wrote, it really resembles my thoughts as well. And if it didn't work out it's not meant to be. Everything that people consider "suffering" is merely contrast...how could you better find out what you like, then from what you don't like. So just learn to enjoy the process. All people are looking for is the wonderful FEELINGS in life...if money or relationships didn't bring us joy then all that's left is the feeling. So learn to love exactly where you are at any moment, with whomever you're with and you've just got the equation to enjoying life. Keep up your posts...I'm diggin what's in your head
    Thank you. This girl is really important to me and we have been through a lot together. I actually was friends with her for a few years, then we dated, then we broke up, drifted apart a little, and now are coming back together. We know each other incredibly well... so well that I think it scares us a little. I think we are about to take this thing to a deeper level. I think about her all the time and I know she does the same but we both know that to rush into things too quickly would spoil it. We are learning to trust each other with our honest emotions, and that always involves a major push/pull.

    Looking back on the other night, I think there was something very comical about it. The air was thick with expectations, but they were so high that neither of us agreed to them. We were basically just proving that we could be together and have nothing happen and that we would both be OK with it. That will take a while to wear off. It is definitely something you have to prove if you are serious about someone.

    I was in my underwear though. I told her the house was too damn hot and she just said it was ok. What's funny was at the end of the night when she kicked me out for not liking the movie, even though it was dark I saw out of the corner of my eye the way she looked at me when I was adjusting my belt... this goofy affectionate smile lol. I pretended not to notice and left, but she cracks me up sometimes. Stubborn despite herself. She'll try to psych me out and then fall apart under the weight of her true feelings. I love how she can't help it. She'll try not to call me, now, but I reckon sometime soon I'll be getting another call telling me how she can't sleep and doesn't know why.



    EDIT: btw our song, not officially but we both always loved it, was "can't hurry love" by the supremes. I take a certain meaning in that!

  9. #19
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Sigh.. getting ready for a long night. Woke up at 6PM today, don't think I'll be sleeping for a while. Time to ramble.

    This all started back in November. I was a dumbass in October. I freaked her out, trying to use weird tactics on her. They made her get all defensive and distant, and her actions had their intended effect - I stopped wanting to try with her.

    That's when her birthday came around. I had intended on getting her a gift in the weeks before, but nothing inspired me. Finally the day came, and I just gave up. I didn't wish her happy birthday even. There was an earthquake that day. Coincidence or not, I think it's pretty awesome.

    Well, this didn't make her too happy. She had helped me celebrate my birthday and she expected the same, but wound up empty handed. At first she was angry and thought I forgot. I told her no, I just didn't feel like doing anything for it. I figured we were done after that. I felt mostly sure I would never see her again.

    Lo and behold, 2 weeks later she shows up at my door wanting to know what she had done to make me angry. I didn't speak to her. It was an interesting hour. She harassed me trying to get me to talk, even threw some of my things off the balcony as a way to threaten me, but I just laid face down on the couch. She eventually stormed out the door yelling about how I was a douchebag. Now it's over, I thought.

    She came over again a couple weeks later to give me a birthday gift she had gotten me but never gave to me. She stormed in, threw it down, and stormed out before I even had a chance to say anything.

    She's a fickle one. On Thanksgiving she texted me, and then again on Christmas, calling me "her love." I responded to neither text. This time, though, I wasn't so sure I'd heard the last from her.

    In fact, she had visited me one more time in December, and I hardly remember anything but one moment. I was ignoring her lying down on the couch as usual, and told her I wanted to take a nap. She said she would too and we went to my bedroom and laid down next to each other. It was kinda intense. There was a moment when our hands met and we clasped them together, but after a second, I realized that she had hurt me in the past and I let go. We slept for a little bit, then she had to go.

    She called wanting to visit me sometime in early January. I said ok, we'd meet up the next night. Then she never called. I was infuriated, and felt I had been made a fool of yet again. The next morning, she called, and I didn't answer. She called twice more, and I still didn't answer. I knew by now, though, that this was not by any means finished. I knew she was coming over. I cleaned up my place and hopped in the shower, and sure as not, she let herself in the door when I was in it.

    I asked her what the fuck she was doing here, and she asked if I wanted her to leave and I hesitated and said I didn't know. I told her to wait for me to get out if she wanted to talk, but a minute later she sneaked into the bathroom and pulled back the curtain on me. She had that goofy smile on her face that I've seen a million times now. I screamed at her like "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING OH MY GOD." And she ran off laughing. I said fuck if I did that to you I'd probably get the cops called on me or something. More laughing. A few minutes passed, and she did it again, this time half her clothes were gone and she was still doing her smile and I yelled her off again.

    I guess I knew the rest was inevitable but I was still playing hard to get. She was wearing a sweater of mine and her underwear, and I got dressed and laid down on the couch to take a nap. She dragged me off of it. I was lying on the floor and she said "fine I'm going to go sleep in your room and you can't come in." I said ok and proceeded to keep lying on the floor. A minute later she came back out and said it was too lonely in there and she dragged me in by my arm.

    You can pretty much imagine the rest. Pretty much. She still hadn't really won me over, and we'll just say things didn't exactly reach completion. That was ok though. We quietly hung out for another hour or two and watched TV. She kissed me when she left.

    I didn't know how things would proceed, but I didn't hear from her for a couple weeks. The next time she showed up, we cleaned up my apartment and watched the Terminator for a while. She told me that she had gotten carried away before and started begging me again to tell her why I had suddenly changed on her birthday. I didn't say a word.

    For the next few months I think I maybe saw her once. There was thick tension in the air, but nothing happened. She would call me from time to time and I would be really blunt and terse with her and the conversation would be short. Then one day when I got tired of this I let the phone ring and didn't pick up.

    A couple weeks later, I got really freaked out about this. I realized that she had gone a long way to show that I meant something to her, and that I should maybe have had a little more faith. I thought maybe I'd never see her again, and this time I had to do something about it so I texted her and told her I loved her. She texted me back the same, and that was it for a while.

    On my Spring break, I decided to go give her a surprise visit, but she wasn't home at the time. When she saw all the missed calls, she called back and was really surprised and confused about all of my actions over the course of the last few months. She was starting to think I was bipolar or something. Or she thought that I was just bored on my Spring break and decided to do this out of boredom. I realized that she wasn't ready to hear the truth, so I let it be.

    A couple weeks later she called again late one night. This call was different. I was still brief with her, but this time she didn't just give up and let me go. She stayed on the line. We sat there on the phone silent together for a long time. She was waiting for me to tell her something, but I ultimately couldn't. She hung up, saying that she would be ready whenever I was willing to talk.

    I didn't think I would be able to, but a week later one day I fell asleep in the afternoon and I woke up in the middle of the night and I just knew that it was time to tell her everything. I wrote her a long message about how I had given up in November because I thought she didn't like me anymore, and it had all been an act since then because I was afraid to trust her so I acted like I didn't care, and how she had proved to me that she did over all these months and that I still loved her.

    The next day I still hadn't heard back when I got home from work, but then there was a knock and the door and she came in. Something was weird about it. I could tell her defenses were up, but she was expecting me to lose control of myself and fall to her feet or something. Sensing this, I kept cool and acted like the text had never happened. We made a little chit chat, and then I started to try to take a nap on my couch. She left.

    More weeks passed. Finally one night she called again and learned that I had quit my job. She was starting to get freaked out about my unpredictable behavior. She wanted to know if this was all because of her, and I told her she was a part of it. We spent a lot of time silent again.

    More weeks passed. She called in the middle of the night again. This time, I was in a very poor state. I had been so bored and lonely during those weeks that I was losing my mind. At least she knew now that I hadn't decided to strike things back up with her during spring break out of boredom. I dunno how it got to this but I basically broke down and cried and I told her that I was always going to have feelings for her and I would never just be able to be her friend, but at this point I was willing to accept that all I wanted was for her to follow her heart and that I knew I was going to be ok no matter what. She then cried as well and we spent some time silently again before hanging up and going to sleep.

    The next day she called again, but I was really tired and blunt and the conversation lasted maybe 2 minutes. I think she expected something more after the emotions of the previous night, but was surprised to find I wasn't in the mood.

    And now we get to where this thread began. Pretty long story, no? And what I've written here only accounts for a small fraction of the time we've known each other - about 6 months, and I've known her since 2008. 4 weeks passed. I was ok at first.. it felt like I didn't even need her anymore. That changed with time, and I eventually grew utterly depressed about it. Nights were absolute torture. I would spent hours writhing around in bed in what I guess could only be called agony.

    I was alone in life, still. All this time of being patient, and here I was, still alone. I was facing my biggest fears, and I woefully accepted over the course of the last couple weeks that the rest of my life might just be what I had hoped it wouldn't be, just a lonely death march without even a morsel of joy. Nonetheless, my patience and faith was unstoppable. I had cursed god over and over only to find myself coming back to obedience and trust every time.

    I was finally beginning to accept things with a bitter smile when the encounter with my neighbor (above) occurred. It was the first time I had told anyone about this struggle, and she listened to the whole thing and understood. I felt good about telling her. I left her place, took a little walk, and came back and fell asleep in my bed until the phone rang at 11:30 and it was her.

    I was the same as always - to the point, blunt. It always feels like she wants to say something about how she feels, but wants me to say it for her. But this time, she invited me over. I had known about her new place for a couple months, but she never invited me to it. Finally she had. I said yes and went.

    It's funny how she always tries to be distant and sees if I try to bring her out. If I'm truly being myself, I don't take this act, and I get silent and let her suffer. She always winds up breaking down in the end. While we were watching the movie, she got her phone out after a while and pretended to be busy on it. I ignored this. Like I said, I just closed my eyes cause I was bored and then she got all mad and kicked me out.

    I saw that look when I was putting on my belt, though, that same goofy, mischievous smile she gets whenever she starts to feel out of control... my favorite smile..

    That's a fraction of what there is to know, but I figure it is interesting enough to write, and maybe interesting enough to read. Do I think this will work out in the end? I wouldn't want to jinx it even if I did. And to be honest, I consider other possibilities. Maybe things aren't meant to be. There's a lot of other beautiful girls out there, and I ultimately have faith that things will work out perfectly for me as long as I stay true to myself. I avoid defining things. They are what they are. I'm just enjoying them as they occur. I'd be lying, though, if I said I wasn't really excited about this. I don't know about the future. I don't want to marry this girl or anything, not at this point anyway. I just know that I like being around her and I want to be around her. Who the hell knows what is going to happen in the future?

  10. #20
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    @zago u guys sound like two Intuitives. lol She's got some kinda Ni, or 6ish, or sx to her lol

    I had a relationship with a guy for 6 years...on and off but the first 4 years were on. In this relationship I told him I'd never marry him. That's how blunt, and well, just rude I can be. I don't know how old you and her are but I'm assuming you're somewhat mature if you are concious about staying true to yourself. So something that I didn't do when I was in this relationship is conciously ask what I wanted in a relationship and how I was feeling when I was with him. Only in the end (last two of 6 years) did I do this and by then it was too late. So it may be unwanted advice but I feel the need to tell you to do the same. I mean as the 6 that I am NO ONE and NOTHING can make me feel comfortable exactly where I am. But when I was with this guy ... bombs could have been going off and as long as he was there, I would feel safe and comfortable and knew everything was going to be ok. I of course now know I need to find and provide myself with this inner security. But that sure as hell doesn't mean I shouldn't have kept him around lol...I have always had the lesson in life of you didn't know what you had til it's gone. Is your faith that things will work out perfectly solid because you feel like she will always be there?

    Anyways that's a lovely and painful story. I would be tortured internally by impulses to do all the waiting you're doing lol. I try so hard to do that in relationships...but I always wind up doing what she does in the end. I give in. lol I'm glad you told her how you feel though.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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