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  1. #21
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    @zago

    I think you at least in part understand the Christian doctrine, and understanding is good, but theres a difference between understanding something and agreeing with it. Im not saying that you have said you wanted to convert to Christianity, but is that is your intent I would discourage converting with zeal to this doctrine on the sole basis you grasp it. You will regret it.

  2. #22
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Na I hate Christians. I don't identify with groups.

  3. #23
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Natural Selection proceeds by reproduction.

    Natural Selection cares not a whit about our suffering, as long as we reproduce.
    I would be inclined to say that, on an objective level, natural selection proceeds by preservation, with reproduction being one of the main forms of preservation even inside the context of an isolated living thing.

    There's a sense in which natural selection does care about suffering. Natural selection isn't always a process to which living things passively submit; sometimes, and usually, living things initiate natural selection themselves by choosing to act in ways that ensure their demise or survival. When living things initiate natural selection or, in fact, do anything at all, they're usually being motivated, in some way, by suffering. To the extent that the selection process involves living things and not lifeless objects (consider parenting), there is a potential for it to result from nothing more than a flight from suffering. The natural selection process is, in such cases, simply a combination of the physical means by which this flight from suffering takes place and the physical products of this flight, which are themselves already engaged in the flight as soon as it shapes them.

    If it is owing to natural selection that we experience suffering, then natural selection is far crueler than any God we've ever invented. Perhaps, though, it is owing to suffering that natural selection occurs, in which case natural selection might be our salvation.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  4. #24
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    I've never understood why "god" has to follow some universal system of justice, like he puts the will of the natural order above his own. That to me seems like a weak and overly moderate philosophy. Only the strong and tenacious can advance forward with greater levels of control and accomplishment.

  5. #25
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    I don't identify with groups.
    Do you identify with Typology Central, a group of which you are a voluntary member?

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    I've never understood why "god" has to follow some universal system of justice, like he puts the will of the natural order above his own. That to me seems like a weak and overly moderate philosophy. Only the strong and tenacious can advance forward with greater levels of control and accomplishment.
    Only teenagers advance forward with greater levels of control and accomplishment.

    For those who have completed the life tasks of a teenager, they let go of control and become a mensch.

    This is impossible for a teenager to imagine, never mind accomplish.

  7. #27
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    natural selection is far crueler than any God we've ever invented.
    Natural Selection is red in tooth and claw. And those who seek to live by Natural Selection created the philosophy called, Social Darwinism, which has been used by diverse groups such as the robber baron of the US and the National Socialists of Germany.

    However other human philosophies such as Ancient Greek Philosophy, Judaism, Christianity, Humanism and the Enlightenment, go counter to Natural Selection.

  8. #28
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Do you identify with Typology Central, a group of which you are a voluntary member?
    Are you high?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    I can't remember where I heard this, but it really resonated with me and my own qualms with Christianity.

    The Old Testament and the New Testament champion wholly different values because they were created to reflect the ideals of wholly different societies. The OT is very much an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Very Hebrew. No one is spreading the word or focussed on converting foreign people because Jews are the chosen people anyway. The NT reflects Roman values: turning the other cheek, cooperating with other nations, "teaching" (forcing) your way of life to (on) other people. So Christianity based on the Bible isn't a cohesive doctrine at all.

    Jesus' death, being a pure act of selflessness, is supposed to encourage you to be as selfless as you (YOU TERRIBLE MAGGOT WHO KILLED JESUS WITH YOUR SINS) can be. You're to forget your ego (and cultural ties) and work to further the goals of your Christian (Roman) brothers.
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

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