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  1. #31
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    I would think at the time of conception, since the Bible never mentions a soul being received; it's assumed that where there's human life, there's a soul. But this is confusing (at least to me) when you consider the verse "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you." Does this imply that each soul has always existed (as a facet of God?), yet only actualized in the form of a human being for a short time? Or just that each soul has always existed in the mind of God?
    Yes, this does make you question if our soul hasn't always existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by LevelZeroHero View Post
    I would guess because God is an eternal Creator, from the beginning to the end, it makes sense that He would know you before He created you in the womb.

    Also, there is one instance where God more-or-less placed a soul into a being and that is Genesis 2:7, "Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."
    Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    A literal soul is supernatural. And so far there is no evidence for the supernatural.

    However there is abundant evidence for the metaphorical soul. We find evidence in literature, in the stories and rituals of spoken cultures, and now we are finding evidence of the metaphorical soul in our electronic culture.

    Christianity speculates about a literal soul, but so far it is just speculation.
    So then what do you believe that the soul is?

    Quote Originally Posted by iNtrovert View Post
    The bold is exactly what came to mind.I have always understood that the souls of men that were,are and will be have always existed and will eternally exist. The creator is not bound by time and space as we are being that he is omnipresent alpha and omega. So a soul exist when he wills it to exist. I believe we are conceived in the will of god before we are even conceived in the womb.

    Jeremiah 1:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
    5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;Before you were born I sanctified you;I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

    In context god was revealing to Jeremiah his purpose and reassuring him of his divine plan for his life. If you read on you will find got telling Jeremiah not to be afraid and that what he(God) wills will come to pass.

    There is also Ephesians 1:4 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Again we see pre-destination here even before the original creation of the very foundation of the world.

    You could also look at John 15:1-16 It's too much to post but the basic idea is that there is nothing man kind can do to save it's self except they follow god. We are not saved by our own works but through the pre-determined will of god in us. I believe this also lends itself to pre-determination of a souls actual exsistance prior to our natural birth or conception.God is a transcending eternal being. The souls of men exist in and because of the will of God.God saves the souls of men according to his will. Gob being an transcendental eternal being has a transcendental eternal will. Our souls exist in and because of that will. Our souls must also be eternal and transcendental. In order to have a predetermined will to save our souls he must have had to predetermine our souls very even existence before that. If in fact we are saved or chosen in gods will we must exists in gods will also. To exist in a being that transcends the natural laws of time in space as we know...to exist in the eternal will of god our souls must also be eternal.( maybe not the clearest explanation but I tried)

    Regardless Palms 139 specifically verses 13-14 gives evidence that even in the womb god has a plan for the soul of a man. Palms 139: 13-14 13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

    Anyway I think that is the general consensus among Christians.
    Yeah, I've never been a fan of pre-destination. I don't like the idea that we are pre-destined to go to hell or heaven from the very beginning. I believe that we all make our own choices and that's what sends us to hell or heaven.

  2. #32
    Senior Member iNtrovert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Yeah, I've never been a fan of pre-destination. I don't like the idea that we are pre-destined to go to hell or heaven from the very beginning. I believe that we all make our own choices and that's what sends us to hell or heaven.
    That's not what I am saying here at all. I've already explained that once on this thread. If you read the rest of my post it may award you some clarity.
    "Re-examine all that you have been told... dismiss that which insults your soul."_Walt Whitman

  3. #33
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Christian Doctrines are not based on evidence and reason, and so are evidently unreasonable.

    And Christian Doctrines are not even based on freedom and equality, and so Christianity has supported slavery, misogyny, child abuse and anti-semitism.

    And the soul is just another figment of the Christian imagination.

    But if you are a believer, and a romantic believer, go look for your soulmate, they are probably looking for you too. Perhaps you will find a folie à deux.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Christian Doctrines are not based on evidence and reason, and so are evidently unreasonable.

    And Christian Doctrines are not even based on freedom and equality, and so Christianity has supported slavery, misogyny, child abuse and anti-semitism.

    And the soul is just another figment of the Christian imagination.

    But if you are a believer, and a romantic believer, go look for your soulmate, they are probably looking for you too. Perhaps you will find a folie à deux.
    If we have a look in past every religion had supported slavery.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roman67 View Post
    If we have a look in past every religion had supported slavery.
    And opposed it.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    And opposed it.
    I do not think so any religion opposed it, It is modern thinking who opposed it.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roman67 View Post
    I do not think so any religion opposed it, It is modern thinking who opposed it.
    Yeah, you need to go read, learn.

  8. #38
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, you need to go read, learn.
    I think if he goes to read and learn he will find it was the Enlightenment values of freedom and equality that led to the abolition of institutional slavery for the first time in history in 1833, and to the emancipation of women in Australia and New Zealand for the first time in history in 1901, and to Judicial Enquiries into institutional child abuse in Ireland and Australia, for the first time in history in 2009 and 2013.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I think if he goes to read and learn he will find it was the Enlightenment values of freedom and equality that led to the abolition of institutional slavery for the first time in history in 1833, and to the emancipation of women in Australia and New Zealand for the first time in history in 1901, and to Judicial Enquiries into institutional child abuse in Ireland and Australia, for the first time in history in 2009 and 2013.
    Yeah but Victor no one really confuses your posts with a decent source of learned writing

  10. #40
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I am only responding to the original poster's question of according to the Christian Bible, when does a person receive a soul?

    First, I'm sorry that it will not be a quick, yes, no, maybe, this is my opinion, because you asked what the Bible teaches about the subject and in order to answer that question, I have to lay down some basic understanding.


    I also need to establish the fact that a lot of people who are "Christian" have a mental consent but are still not spiritually awake. Meaning that maybe their beliefs are based in traditions or politics, but the "*Christianity" of the early followers of Christ was based in a spiritual awakening, an experience that resulted in dead being raised, sick being healed and all manner of miraculous things that defy the understanding of the natural mind. Also, please realize that from a Biblical standpoint, a soul and a spirit are not the same thing. Many people don't know that the Bible teaches a plain distinction, but it does. I have a mountain of scriptual references to back up the things I'm going to say, but I lack the time to present it all and I doubt you'd want to read it all...although you might, because I really don't know you.

    Now, to the answer:

    According to the Bible, a human being is a three part being.

    The Bible teaches that a person is a spirit who lives in a body and has a soul. When the spirit enters the body, the proverbial light comes on and the result is a soul or mental construct of self. Hence, the soul is a result of the spirit uniting with a body. When a body begins to form inside a mother, it doesn't belong to the mother, it belongs to the new spirit that takes up residence in it. The union of this body and spirit produces a soul. The spirit is the part of a person that is the real person, the part that lives forever.

    So we could say the following:

    Spirit--is the dimension of a person that deals with the spirit realm, the part that knows God. A person's spirit can be awake and alert or it can be in a state of zombilikeness where it provides the "electral" sparks to keep the body alive but never gets listened to or heeded. It is comatose in some people.

    Soul--this is the part of a person which deals with the mental realm or self-awareness in the physical world. It's the emotional realm, the thought realm, sensibilities, reasoning and thinking. The soul can either guide the spirit if the spirit is comatose or it can be guided by the spirit if the spirit is awake. The soul is affected by emotions and human reasoning. The spirit is not. Our soul is a battlefield and the prize is our spirit. Everyone of us, according to the Bible, has a spirit and that spirit in each of us is either in bondage [a slave to someone or something else] or it is free. A free spirit isn't the same as a hard head or an arrogant attitude. Those things are deceptions of ego and are not spiritual in nature. The soul, or mind and emotions of a person, cannot figure out or rationalize the things of the spirit. The door to a living spirit can only be opened by a conscious choice to believe. Faith is the key. I am getting side-tracked, but it's all tied together.

    Body--the physical vessel that houses the spirit, the union of which produces a soul.

    In the book of Jeremiah, chapter 1, verse 5, God says to him that he knew him BEFORE he formed him in his mother's womb. This scripture indicates that Jeremiah existed before coming to inhabit a human body. God knew him as a spirit being but when Jeremiah went to inhabit a body, he became a soulish being as well, meaning he obtained awareness of himself in this physical world.

    There are other scriptures but I think this one will suffice. I hope I answered your question satisfactorily. "When does the Chirstain Bible teach that a person recieves a soul?"

    It teaches that a person is not alive until the spirit inhabits a body and that the spirit comes to inhabit the body while it is still being formed in the mother's womb. It isn't specific on whether that is when the first egg and cell unite but it is certainly there when the heart starts to beat and brain waves start to form, because it is the spirit that gives life and the spirit that causes the electrical spark that makes the heart beat. In the same way, once a spirit leaves a body, the body is dead. The presence of a spirit is life and the absence of a spirit is death, but it is only the body which dies. The spirit continues to live just as it lived before entering the body. The only difference is that the spirit [the person] now carries the soul imprints that it picked up during its life on earth just as we might carry with us the memory of a vacation we took while traveling in a car. Our bodies are like the cars. Our spirits are the real us that are in the car and our soul is the experiences, memories, emotions, thoughts, etc., that we picked up on our trip. Hope I helped and hope I made sense.

    *early followers of Jesus never called themselves Christians. They simply referred to their beliefs as "The Way." [yes, it is the same character in the Chinese Bible that is used for Tao. Jesus told his followers, "I am The Way...." He taught them that if they truly wanted to know The Way, then they should know him.] A lot of people don't know that the God of ancient China was the same God as the one the ancient Jews worsipped and that the belief in this God predates Bhuddism and Taoism by as much as 2,500 years. The entire story of the book of Genisis is actually hidden in many writing characters of the Chinese language. I know...that's another subject, but it's interesting. The Bible says that the followers of the Way were first called Christians at Antioch because some people there said they were "little Christs" going around healing the sick and raising the dead and teaching the words of Jesus. Therefore, those people made fun of them and called them Christians which literally meant, "little Christs".
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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