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  1. #91
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I don't believe in supreme beings and an afterlife in exactly the same way that I don't believe in the tooth fairy and leprechauns. Some people tell me that atheism is a "belief system." I say: Fine, whatever. But then I guess that not believing in the tooth fairy and leprechauns is a "belief system" too.

    I simply was raised without any religious instruction at all. Then, in my twenties I dabbled with religion, read the Bible, went to church, prayed a little bit, etc. It was new to me, and I wanted to give it a fair tryout. But it was creepy. All of a sudden I was supposed to believe that there was a giant eye in the sky recording all my deeds and thoughts in order to hold them against me when I died. Very creepy. Very oppressive.

    So I put down the religious stuff and went back to my comfortable non-belief. Good riddance to the eye in the sky. I put the eye in the sky back in the closet with the fairies and leprechauns.
    The difference between atheists and apatheists isn't in what you do or don't believe in. The difference is wether or not the question or issue hold any significance to you.

    To an atheist who doesn't believe in a God or afterlife, this belief (or non-belief, however you like to view it) is in one way or another of importance to them. It is important to an atheist that they do not believe in religion.

    To an apatheist, it doesn't matter wether or not there is or is no God. Either way the question can't be proven and debate towards this end is futile and pointless. Apatheists are indifferent and are closest to the term 'non-believers'.

    Your own stance is almost closer to apatheism than it is to atheism. Although from the fact that you decidedly closeted your beliefs does at least insinuate that the choice of not believing anymore empowers you in some form so you still lean towards the atheism side of that spectrum.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #92
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    The difference between atheists and apatheists isn't in what you do or don't believe in. The difference is wether or not the question or issue hold any significance to you.

    To an atheist who doesn't believe in a God or afterlife, this belief (or non-belief, however you like to view it) is in one way or another of importance to them. It is important to an atheist that they do not believe in religion.

    To an apatheist, it doesn't matter wether or not there is or is no God. Either way the question can't be proven and debate towards this end is futile and pointless. Apatheists are indifferent and are closest to the term 'non-believers'.

    Your own stance is almost closer to apatheism than it is to atheism. Although from the fact that you decidedly closeted your beliefs does at least insinuate that the choice of not believing anymore empowers you in some form so you still lean towards the atheism side of that spectrum.
    It doesn't matter whether or not there is a god, until he/she/it starts doing something interesting.

    What does matter is all the people who feel compelled by their belief of god to do nasty things. Then you have the problem of deciding which is more important: tolerance for others' beliefs or standing up for the people harmed by those beliefs. Ideally both can be accommodated, but often it's the religious people who reject that idea, and want the laws to be determined by their own religious moral codes.

    You can be indifferent to the possibility of god, while not being indifferent about the actions of (some) religious people.
    -end of thread-

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    The difference between atheists and apatheists isn't in what you do or don't believe in. The difference is wether or not the question or issue hold any significance to you.

    To an atheist who doesn't believe in a God or afterlife, this belief (or non-belief, however you like to view it) is in one way or another of importance to them. It is important to an atheist that they do not believe in religion.

    To an apatheist, it doesn't matter wether or not there is or is no God. Either way the question can't be proven and debate towards this end is futile and pointless. Apatheists are indifferent and are closest to the term 'non-believers'.

    Your own stance is almost closer to apatheism than it is to atheism. Although from the fact that you decidedly closeted your beliefs does at least insinuate that the choice of not believing anymore empowers you in some form so you still lean towards the atheism side of that spectrum.
    Interesting distinction. I looked up both terms in Wikipedia to pin down the distinction further.

    There was a period in my twenties when I cared very much about finding out conclusively whether or not God existed. For a young INFP, it wasn’t the kind of problem that one could simply ignore. I already mentioned that I dabbled in Christianity in my twenties; in fact I read a number of the world’s “holy books,” I checked out transcendental meditation, etc. I also read a lot of history, anthropology, and psych books trying to pin down why religion would be so attractive to so many people if in fact God didn’t exist.

    Eventually I pinned it down to my satisfaction: God was the stuff of fairies and leprechauns. So I suppose at that point I was an atheist by your definition: I didn’t believe, but the distinction was important to me and I had to have an answer.

    Now it’s 30 years later, and I’m indifferent about the issue. The non-existence of God has been such a constant for me for so long, that it now seems utterly silly to think any other way. So I suppose I’m an apatheist in my manner of non-belief by now.

    Aside from that, my attitude toward religion these days is as Randomnity pointed out: When I notice religion at all, it’s mostly in reaction to believers and their impact on my life (directly or indirectly), as opposed to reflecting the nature of my own non-belief. In other words, no matter what the nature of my own non-belief, one still has to deal with the believers and their inanities.

  4. #94
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Apatheism or apathic agnosticism is the future.

    Atheism is just another theistic belief that is an oxymoron in itself.
    Apatheism for the win.

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I say: Fine, whatever. But then I guess that not believing in the tooth fairy and leprechauns is a "belief system" too.
    It is. The fact that something is a belief has no bearing on whether or not it is true or false.

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I've grown to where it pains me to read of some subjects, but today I decided to crack open Dawkins' The God Delusion. He pretty much destroys the concept of militant atheism. Good read, around page 70 or so.
    So you'd say The God Delusion is like your bible?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    So you'd say The God Delusion is like your bible?

    A source of thought, one among many.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Idealatious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Atheism is just another theistic belief that is an oxymoron in itself.
    Most atheists are agnostic atheists, though... they think there is no God, but they recognize that there *might* be a God. I'm not sure why that's an oxymoron? It just means you have an opinion while recognizing that reality is unknown.

    Personally, I wouldn't want to be associated with the word like "apathy!" I can care about all sorts of things, meaningless, irrelevant to my life, or not. Looking at the Wikipedia page, I don't think I'd be apatheist. It's not that important to me that there isn't a god, but if someone proved that god did exist, my behavior might change; I admit. It depends on what kind of god...

  7. #97
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    The very fact that you go about the trouble to call and proclaim yourself as an apatheist is probably more than a little ironic.

  8. #98
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    The very fact that you go about the trouble to call and proclaim yourself as an apatheist is probably more than a little ironic.
    I don't care.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  9. #99
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    The very fact that you go about the trouble to call and proclaim yourself as an apatheist is probably more than a little ironic.
    It would be ironic if I was argueing with other peoples beliefs in this topic or stating who I think is right or wrong. I truly don't care who is right and who is wrong and I recognize it is futile to argue. So far all I've done is state my own stance on this and explain what my stance meant.

    Also, just because this topic is of no concern whatsoever to me, it clearly does to some of the people on this forum and just because I am apathetic towards the subject, doesn't mean I am also apathetic to the people that post in this topic.

    I've only proclaimed my stance and explained my stance. I've not argued with anyone elses believes nor do I intend to.



    So allow me to refute your call of irony. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    How do I feel about it? It’s kind of nice to see atheism doing a little push-back against religion (above and beyond the occasional court case).
    weird, it is precisely because i am an atheist (or teapot agnostic, close enough) that my reaction to militant atheism is pretty much covered in those infamous lines:


    i mean, seriously, the whole principle of non-theism is that WE DON'T WANT TO PLAY THE GAME. going in and making non theism into a side... wtf dawkins? WTF?

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