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  1. #11
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    The only thing this video proves is that this kid is smater than this blue-shirt guy. It seems neither has thought a lot about epistemology.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The only thing this video proves is that this kid is smater than this blue-shirt guy. It seems neither has thought a lot about epistemology.
    I wouldn't expect a 6th-grader to know much about epistemology beyond common-sense epistemology. And that's all it takes to demolish Mr. Hovind.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I wouldn't expect a 6th-grader to know much about epistemology beyond common-sense epistemology. And that's all it takes to demolish Mr. Hovind.
    So what are you saying then? Should the title of the thread not be 6th-grader demolishes Mr Hovind?

    You understand that would have an entirely different import and meaning to what the thread has been titled.

  4. #14
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    However, if faith ruled the science community, we would not know with certainty that viruses exist.
    It's all semantics. People believed the earth was round well before we actually got an astronaut in space. At least a teeny, tiny part of us could have doubted it until we saw the pictures. It is certain enough, though, to apply to our daily lives. Which brings me to my next point..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I don't know anything with certainty unless I know everything (with certainty).
    You really don't. There are experts in philosophy, geology, physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc. that are Christians, Islamic, Hindu, etc. Complete experts in their fields--the very STEM fields that try so hard to argue for Atheism--and they still maintain their faith. There is still not enough evidence to completely discount the religion itself, albeit many discount the WAY it is taught and the translations used.

    At the end of the day, we don't know, and we never will. That's the "We agree to disagree" argument ending statement for religion vs atheism. And that statement really means that no one can know with certainty who is right. We can only know practical certainty to use within our daily lives until such a time as one dies. No one knows everything. For Christians, that certainty is within God. Only he knows, and it is the only certainty in life. And really, it is not a bad practical application in and of itself. Humans are usually the ones that make it more annoying than it has to be.

    I have to say though, for atheists to rely so heavily on science, they are WAY too certain that everything is not connected by something. At the end of the day, if an atheist does not believe that no proof is not a sign of non-existence, they are being just as blind as the Christians can be.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    So what are you saying then? Should the title of the thread not be 6th-grader demolishes Mr Hovind?

    You understand that would have an entirely different import and meaning to what the thread has been titled.
    Yet another red herring response.

    Isn't it true that Mr. Hovind is a Christian? Stuttering in defeat and then repeating the premise is, admittedly, not limited to Mr. Hovind or to Christians in general.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #16
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I wouldn't expect a 6th-grader to know much about epistemology beyond common-sense epistemology. And that's all it takes to demolish Mr. Hovind.
    Is Mr. Hovind a well-known religious propagandist? In that case I could understand why exposing his shortcomings might be interesting. On the other hand, it is still publicity.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It's all semantics. People believed the earth was round well before we actually got an astronaut in space. At least a teeny, tiny part of us could have doubted it until we saw the pictures. It is certain enough, though, to apply to our daily lives. Which brings me to my next point..



    You really don't. There are experts in philosophy, geology, physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc. that are Christians, Islamic, Hindu, etc. Complete experts in their fields--the very STEM fields that try so hard to argue for Atheism--and they still maintain their faith. There is still not enough evidence to completely discount the religion itself, albeit many discount the WAY it is taught and the translations used.

    At the end of the day, we don't know, and we never will. That's the "We agree to disagree" argument ending statement for religion vs atheism. And that statement really means that no one can know with certainty who is right. We can only know practical certainty to use within our daily lives until such a time as one dies. No one knows everything. For Christians, that certainty is within God. Only he knows, and it is the only certainty in life. And really, it is not a bad practical application in and of itself. Humans are usually the ones that make it more annoying than it has to be.

    I have to say though, for atheists to rely so heavily on science, they are WAY too certain that everything is not connected by something. At the end of the day, if an atheist does not believe that no proof is not a sign of non-existence, they are being just as blind as the Christians can be.
    Did anybody here state that religion doesn't have some value (as when you refer to discounting it, because that's a statement of valuation)? Religion obviously has value, at least subjectively. It simply has no value for science. Can faith and reason exist in the same person? Obviously. Does it have anything to do with the present topic? No. Religion can be of value to scientists, but it is of no value to science.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Yet another red herring response.

    Isn't it true that Mr. Hovind is a Christian? Stuttering in defeat and then repeating the premise is, admittedly, not limited to Mr. Hovind or to Christians in general.
    Red herring response? I'm sorry I dont understand, you also failed to reply to my questions.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Is Mr. Hovind a well-known religious propagandist? In that case I could understand why exposing his shortcomings might be interesting. On the other hand, it is still publicity.
    The guy is all over youtube, so he is apparently a youtube propagandist.

    And he has his own Wiki entry, so obviously that makes him somebody.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Red herring response? I'm sorry I dont understand, you also failed to reply to my questions.
    I thought I answered according to my infinitely limited comprehension of your comment. It's a red herring because, so far, you haven't dealt with the topic of the thread, but only dismissed the value of such debates.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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