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  1. #131
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Do you see a difference between necessary evidence and possible evidence? Do you have any criteria for determining what is necessary and what is possible evidence?
    The word used was 'necessarily' which means an inevitable result, something that happens without fail.

    So in that case, necessary evidence would be referring to evidence that appears without fail, no exceptions - which would set it apart from 'possible evidence' which may appear but is not guaranteed.

  2. #132
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    It would get everyone to stop being so damn mean to me? You're better at all of this than I am..
    I'm really sorry, but I'm honestly just not in the mood for this. I think I've contributed too much already.

  3. #133
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    i made hi coo about this thread b/c i want 2 sound like doing good?

    same old thread renewed,
    getting nowhere fast silly,
    get a fucking job.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGERdeMAIN View Post
    same old thread renewed,
    getting nowhere fast silly,
    get a fucking job.
    This haiku is great.
    From now on we only post
    in haiku format.

  5. #135
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    This is exactly what I DID write from the very beginning. But the whole thread got out of hand because ...



    ... The semantics are still being argued over. You literally just said you agree with my viewpoint, but this is the viewpoint I started out with when I started this damn debate.

    And somehow, it turned into whether or not I agree/respect/whatever science. That's not what I was trying to debate about at all. I really, honestly, do like to stick to the OPs of threads for the most part. And yet, people kept picking apart my wording and magically we got to a point where my point was entirely lost in the entire thread.

    I made it. And I made it again. And now, somehow, it is not only my fault for writing books trying to explain how my words tie back into my point, but someone is NOW telling me "Well why didn't you just say that?!" I DID.
    I agree with parts of what you say, and then you say I am wishy-washy. And you're the one complaining?

    Who else here has agreed with even the tiniest thing you say?

    Oh, and bringing up logic is not semantics.

    "And somehow, it turned into whether or not I agree/respect/whatever science." That wasn't my doing. My question is, do you agree with or respect logic?

    Obviously not, if you continue to discount it (to use one of your own colorful verbs), by claiming there are different types of logic depending on cultural factors.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #136
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Do you see a difference between necessary evidence and possible evidence? Do you have any criteria for determining what is necessary and what is possible evidence?
    Necessary evidence and possible evidence aren't really terms that I used in my post. What I said was that in some cases, there's a piece of evidence for a thing's existence that must be present if that thing exists (this is purely a result of how the thing is defined; the thing's definition entails the presence of the evidence); and an absence of such a piece of evidence demonstrates that the thing is nonexistent. The other type of evidence is evidence that, when absent, leaves it possible that the thing exists.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]

  7. #137
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    The word used was 'necessarily' which means an inevitable result, something that happens without fail.

    So in that case, necessary evidence would be referring to evidence that appears without fail, no exceptions - which would set it apart from 'possible evidence' which may appear but is not guaranteed.
    Do you agree that for something (such as evidence) to be necessary it must first be possible?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #138
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    Necessary evidence and possible evidence aren't really terms that I used in my post. What I said was that in some cases, there's a piece of evidence for a thing's existence that must be present if that thing exists (this is purely a result of how the thing is defined; the thing's definition entails the presence of the evidence); and an absence of such a piece of evidence demonstrates that the thing is nonexistent. The other type of evidence is evidence that, when absent, leaves it possible that the thing exists.
    In the case of the existence of a "God particle," which is an entity that can only be detected indirectly, even necessary evidence is not good enough. Why? Because it depends on the validity of the QM model being used. It is necessary only within that model.

    What if, instead of talking about a God particle, we were talking about God? Isn't a person investigating this issue still employing only a model of a possible reality, yet one whose existence is dependent upon postulates necessitated by the system itself? Those postulates determine the evidence necessary to validate the postulates, and the method one uses to validate them.

    In the case of the God particle, the postulates at the basis of the model (the system) determine what that particle must "look" like (at least in concept or mathematically), what evidence is necessary to determine its probable existence, and how this evidence is to be gathered.

    In the case of God, the postulates at the basis of the theological model determine what God must "look" like.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #139
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Do you agree that for something (such as evidence) to be necessary it must first be possible?
    Sure. Necessary things are both possible and necessary. But not all possible things are necessary.

  10. #140
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    That to me highlights what I think is wrong with some athiesm, to be honest, with respect, the majority in the media or that I've met in person.

    There's a streak of negativity, usually they'll mention their athiest credentials in conjunction with some other desire to see religious practices or thinking disappear or reach extinction, there's a sort of malice, grievance and persecuting zeal which always accompanies it. I dont care much that anyone is an actual athiest, I'm sorry that a lot of them have had bad personal experiences with religion and have such reductive or narrow minded views about the matter but that's all grand. I've never met an athiest that could honestly say the same about my being a believer. They all have a compelling need to change that and tell me the error of my ways.

    Ironic? Dontcha think?
    Maybe you just haven't met the right atheists


    Also, do consider that as humans our brains reward us when we focus on things that match our set beliefs. Our reward systems light up when we read/watch/hear things that concur with our existing beliefs. I'm an atheist, and I see most theists as being incredibly intolerant of my beliefs, whereas my atheist friends leave the opposing side alone. But then, I want the theists to be "bad" and the "atheists" to be good, don't I? And you just proved right here that there are religious people who accept my beliefs. So I suppose I must be seeking out information that my brain wants to "hear". Could that be the case with you?
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

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