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  1. #111
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Look. I'm done. Seriously. I'm not a debater, I'm not getting anything out of this, I was trying to discuss a point that is LONG lost with all this bullshit about how I suck at making analogies and how the way I think and speak is fucking retarded.

    I love science, Im going to school for fucking science because I love it so much. What I don't like is people taking my fucking words out of context. I say, "Look, science is not all there is. The boy is asking for tangible evidence that cannot be provided. This isn't science, people should not treat science like it is the only measuring tool in life." And suddenly I'm trivializing science.

    I'm. Done.
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  2. #112
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Look. I'm done. Seriously. I'm not a debater, I'm not getting anything out of this, I was trying to discuss a point that is LONG lost with all this bullshit about how I suck at making analogies and how the way I think and speak is fucking retarded.

    I love science, Im going to school for fucking science because I love it so much. What I don't like is people taking my fucking words out of context. I say, "Look, science is not all there is. The boy is asking for tangible evidence that cannot be provided. This isn't science, people should not treat science like it is the only measuring tool in life." And suddenly I'm trivializing science.

    I'm. Done.
    You could have just said this instead of writing books.

    And in fact, in between my "nit-pickings" (which are attempts at applying your own personal use of concepts), I have said that religion has subjective purpose.

    But defending religion is not the point of this thread. Logic (not western, or eastern, or white-male logic, just plain logic) is ubiquitous to the debating process. The Christian has to defend his point with logic in a debate; and in doing so, he leaves himself open to logical criticism. And all it took was the logic of a 12-year-old to leave him stammering for an answer.

    The video is showing a debate, not a seminary school class.
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  3. #113
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    These sorts of charades and the intensity with which their fans circulate them leave me thinking that atheism's brief spell in the sun really is coming to close.

    On the other hand what will it have achieved in its time? It hasnt lead to a more civilised, thoughtful and humane religion, it has in fact accentuated and perpetuated the negative within and about religion.

    And religion's effect upon atheism and science? Well its inability to avoid mirroring the worst aspects of its opposition and its permitting of atheism and pseudo-science to frame the debate has been for the ill too.

    Better than snide, clever, trickery in disputatious debating would be an actual dialogue, that never happened and I dont think its possible at this juncture. The whole world and whole of humankind is the poorer for it.

    It's very difficult to open a dialogue about Atheism vs Christianity (or any religion), though. Atheists say "You have no proof of any of this," and religious people say "We know, and we don't need it," and there's an end to it.
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  4. #114
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    It's very difficult to open a dialogue about Atheism vs Christianity (or any religion), though. Atheists say "You have no proof of any of this," and religious people say "We know, and we don't need it," and there's an end to it.
    Hardly. Books have been written for the sole purpose of proving God's existence.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #115
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Hardly. Books have been written for the sole purpose of proving God's existence.
    More like for the sole purpose of selling, ftw.

  6. #116
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Hardly. Books have been written for the sole purpose of proving God's existence.
    Some people doth protest too much, methinks.

  7. #117
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    It's very difficult to open a dialogue about Atheism vs Christianity (or any religion), though. Atheists say "You have no proof of any of this," and religious people say "We know, and we don't need it," and there's an end to it.
    I actually have more respect for this kind of "argument" than for when Christians (or people of other faiths) try to present their beliefs as logical. I understand and accept that not everything is governed by logic, but if someone is going to claim their position is logical, it has to stand up to that style of scrutiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I love science, Im going to school for fucking science because I love it so much. What I don't like is people taking my fucking words out of context. I say, "Look, science is not all there is. The boy is asking for tangible evidence that cannot be provided. This isn't science, people should not treat science like it is the only measuring tool in life." And suddenly I'm trivializing science.
    If you had written this, I would have agreed with it. That summarizes my own views rather closely. I have devoted my education and now my career to science, and do not take kindly to statements that appear to trivialize it, and do attempt to correct misunderstandings regarding it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Look. I'm done. Seriously. I'm not a debater, I'm not getting anything out of this, I was trying to discuss a point that is LONG lost with all this bullshit about how I suck at making analogies and how the way I think and speak is fucking retarded.

    I love science, Im going to school for fucking science because I love it so much. What I don't like is people taking my fucking words out of context. I say, "Look, science is not all there is. The boy is asking for tangible evidence that cannot be provided. This isn't science, people should not treat science like it is the only measuring tool in life." And suddenly I'm trivializing science.

    I'm. Done.
    Who the fuck?!

    Point them out and they and three generations of their kin are fucking doomed!!

  9. #119
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Who the fuck?!

    Point them out and they and three generations of their kin are fucking doomed!!
    All this isn't the point.

    Kyu says, "The boy is asking for tangible evidence that cannot be provided." That's not what happened. The "boy" asked for some LOGIC that the Christian could not provide.

    Now I'd like to hear about "Christian logic" and how it is different.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    It's very difficult to open a dialogue about Atheism vs Christianity (or any religion), though. Atheists say "You have no proof of any of this," and religious people say "We know, and we don't need it," and there's an end to it.
    Mark Vernon did in the UK easily enough, it wasnt the believers who sunk him either, the evangelicals ignored him and the majority of the people dont care much about what they think anyway (understanding very little about them besides associations with nothing much besides militancy or tenacity about traditionalist norms).

    Nope, it where athiests who'd hear absolutely nothing about religion or religious imagination as a universal human experience arising from human needs or human nature. They suspected him of sellling out and his neutral books about God have all been attacked as exercises in Christian apologetics, a curious thing since he's a thinker that I associate more strongly with buddhism or other non-theist religious traditions.

    That to me highlights what I think is wrong with some athiesm, to be honest, with respect, the majority in the media or that I've met in person.

    There's a streak of negativity, usually they'll mention their athiest credentials in conjunction with some other desire to see religious practices or thinking disappear or reach extinction, there's a sort of malice, grievance and persecuting zeal which always accompanies it. I dont care much that anyone is an actual athiest, I'm sorry that a lot of them have had bad personal experiences with religion and have such reductive or narrow minded views about the matter but that's all grand. I've never met an athiest that could honestly say the same about my being a believer. They all have a compelling need to change that and tell me the error of my ways.

    Ironic? Dontcha think?

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