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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "concealing the nature of manual work" though...
    No one here thought that working out in the gym was manual work until I drew attention to it.

    But once our attention is drawn, we can see that the gym is not scholarly work, or artistic work, or philosophical work, or scientific work, it jumps out as manual work.

  2. #52
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call it manual labor though, since it's for health, not for income/sustenance.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I wouldn't call it manual labor though, since it's for health, not for income/sustenance.
    You won't call it manual labour because you are trapped in the dominent paradigm.

    I reach out my hand to pull you out of the dominent paradigm, but you spurn me.

  4. #54
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    No one who does manual work for a living does it for exercise.

    It is only when we cease doing manual work for a living do we raise its status to exercise.

    We demonstate we are so free from and so far above manual work that we do it at our discretion in fashionable clothes in order demonstrate our new and higher status.
    Fashionable clothes? You have obviously never watched me do yard work. No, I don't chop wood and ride my bike places for a living, I do it just because that is how I live. Same as I cook my own meals, mend my own clothes, and paint my own house. No one pays me to do those things either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    No one here thought that working out in the gym was manual work until I drew attention to it.

    But once our attention is drawn, we can see that the gym is not scholarly work, or artistic work, or philosophical work, or scientific work, it jumps out as manual work.
    Exercising at the gym is not work because it has no productive output other than the exercise and enjoyment itself, just like friends playing basketball after work, or even kids running through the neighborhood and climbing trees.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #55
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Money has no value, other than the things it gets you. By itself, money is worthless.

    I never had summer jobs, never had to work for minimum wages, yet I still spend my money better than people around me. Guess it came along with ISTJness. I'm very low maintenance and always looking for efficiency (= good price/value).

    What I would teach my kid is not the worth of money, but worth of hard work, persistence and self-sufficiency.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Exercising at the gym is not work because it has no productive output other than the exercise and enjoyment itself, just like friends playing basketball after work, or even kids running through the neighborhood and climbing trees.
    Exercising at the gym produces status.

    Of course it is not fashionable to say we work for status, so we say it is for health, or to build our body, or just for fun. But just look at the intensity on the faces of those exercising at the gym and we can see they are in deadly earnest.

    And as we move from a manufacturing economy to a service economy, we have transformed manual work into a symbol of status in the gym.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post
    Likewise with people no longer tending farms, they tend elaborate gardens sometimes with ridiculously expensive gadgets to make things
    Precisely, when we stopped farming for a living, we started hobby farms to give us a tax break, and if we couldn't afford a hobby farm, we started our own hobby garden, even in pots on a balcony.

    So farming become a hobby and rose in status to middle class.

  8. #58
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Dave Barry said his dad taught him a lot about money, such as if you want to have any, don't be a Presbyterian minister.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  9. #59
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Exercising at the gym produces status.
    So does wearing an expensive watch, or dating the capt of the football team. We don't mistake these activities for "work" either.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #60
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    But what about people who love their job, or who love to go to work? Would they not value the money they make from it?
    There's a crucial difference between people who simply love their job, and those who love to go to work, and they will probably take away different lessons from the experience. Teenagers who fall into the latter category are very fortunate, well-poised for success in life*, though they may have to be made intellectually aware of what money represents in terms of personal sacrifice for other people (so no, they may not value the money they've earned as much as other teenagers). I would assume teenagers under 18 who fall into the former category to be freakishly rare (who enjoys flipping burgers or washing toilets for its own sake?), but the experience might actually inhibit career ambitions for such people, though they may learn to live within their means.

    Could the reason you were unsettled by the parental lesson be due to its 'one size fits all' nature?

    *This is something I've had to realize on an intellectual level; I feel no sense of pride, accomplishment or self-worth from any work I don't enjoy, only relief when its over mingled with resentment that my precious time on this earth was wasted. I recognize a work ethic as a virtue, leading to higher levels of personal happiness and higher societal standards of living, its just not something I've ever understood at an emotional or intuitive level.

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