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  1. #11
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    When we did manual work, it was working class. But now we no longer do manual work, manual work is now done for middle-class status.

    For instance, in Canberra we have high tech, up-market gyms almost everywhere. And Canberrans, who no longer do manual work, dress in expensive and fashionable leotards, and do manual work in the gyms as a form of status display.

    So manual work is now longer valued for money, but for status.
    So working out in a gym is manual work? lol that's a hilarious thought.

  2. #12
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  3. #13
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    But why would you learn more making minimum wage than making more than that?
    When I graduated from college, I recall living in my first apartment and not having enough money to buy curtains, a bed or furniture. It took a couple of years for me to be able to afford basic furniture, buy a car and things like that. I literally slept on the floor for a couple of months. I recall living on $10 - $15 a week for a period while I was in college (for food). When you don't have a lot, and you work hard to obtain something, I think you appreciate it more.

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  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    So working out in a gym is manual work? lol that's a hilarious thought.
    Well it is literally true, isn't it?

    A gym workout is not intellectual work, it is not artistic work, it is not scientific work, it is simply manual work.

    But notice, no manual worker goes to gym after work.

    It is non-manual workers who go to the gym after work.

    And notice manual work (in the gym) has now changed status from working class to middle class.

    And this gives us the general principle that a practice no longer in use rises in status.

  5. #15
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Well it is literally true, isn't it?

    A gym workout is not intellectual work, it is not artistic work, it is not scientific work, it is simply manual work.

    But notice, no manual worker goes to gym after work.

    It is non-manual workers who go to the gym after work.

    And notice manual work (in the gym) has now changed status from working class to middle class.

    And this gives us the general principle that a practice no longer in use rises in status.
    I have no argument with any of this. Likewise with people no longer tending farms, they tend elaborate gardens sometimes with ridiculously expensive gadgets to make things easier, etc (think Topsy-Turvy; not horrendously expensive to purchase but each one does not provide a whole lot of yield & they fall apart after 1-2 years).

    I hardly do exercise these days but when I do it's either yoga (flexibility = feel a hell of a lot better, as muscles get tight & achy when one is sedentary all day) or bicycling (expending effort to observe a large area up close in a relatively short timespan). A gym has absolutely no value to me whatsoever (and I used to go to one; didn't use it much after 2 months, went several months paying the fee but not utilizing it; I eventually figured out that my physical strength and well-being improved much faster by jogging outside than anything I did at the gym).
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  6. #16
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    another way to learn, is not having enough money, you learn by being like geeze i wish i could actually afford everything I need, and that in return teaches you the value of money.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Why don't you tell me how you think you learn the value of money?
    I'm apprehensive about answering a question with such an obvious answer. I almost feel like asking you "What's the catch?" You answered your own question, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Someone I know told me that he had been working since the age of 15 because his father told him that if he wanted anything he had to work and buy it for himself to learn the value of money.
    The point of the father's 'lesson' is that there is no such thing as an inexhaustible source of money.

  8. #18
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I've always enjoyed my jobs and working hard. I probably learned more about the value of money when I was getting paid minimum wage. You learn the value of money because you see how hard you have to work to make it. You might love your work but it is still work. You also end up sacrificing certain things in your personal life to progress up the career ladder, which is even easier to do if you love your work. So there is real personal cost involved in making it.

    Valuing money to me is not the same as valuing the things you buy. Some might disagree with me but I think money provides some level of security and freedom. Things you buy are different. For the most part, the money is either gone or spent on something that depreciates. You can spend money on a wonderful vacation and enjoy it as well as have a lifelong memory. I believe experiences are some of the more worthwhile things to invest in. You can also buy stuff. Stuff in my opinion has less value. You get a short boost when you first get it. There are exceptions. I live well below my means and save a lot. I also splurge at times on things that many would think are quite wasteful but it is rare for me to spend a lot on something that I don't use. I have had a nice convertible for the last five years and I love driving it now as much as when I got it, so it's really the experience I bought and not as much the thing. I've definitely gotten value out of what I spent on it.
    This is me too. My final goal is to maximize my own independence thats why I save most of my money to buy a house some day and maybe a bar for which I'd quit my job and work in it allday being my own boss. For that I'd need some money but not all of it.

    I've learnt it differently tho. My father being a business owner always made money the central focal point in our life. I learnt that you need to work hard to earn the money. He tho at the same time spent all the money he earnt, he has like 5 cars now or what. And that is not the right way imo. The consequences for him were that even at a higher age now, he still needs to work like a horse, to finance all his luxuries. I think that was a bad choice.
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  9. #19
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Someone I know told me that he had been working since the age of 15 because his father told him that if he wanted anything he had to work and buy it for himself to learn the value of money.

    This made me think about how exactly one would learn the value of money that way.

    It must be assumed that when you work, you suffer, and that suffering is what makes you learn the value of money. So work must be unpleasant, painful or not enjoyable and that is why you value the things you buy with the money you earn from your work so much. Consider the time/blood/sweat/tears/sacrifice etc. you've put into working in order to make that money, you would never waste it, right? Nor would you be careless with the things you buy?

    But what about people who love their job, or who love to go to work? Would they not value the money they make from it?

    I don't know, there's something slightly disturbing about all this and I can't quite put my finger on it.
    It doesn't really have anything to do with suffering. The guy just wants to teach his kid that money isn't a magical substance that endlessly and effortlessly comes from parents. A lot of kids need that lesson if their parents are relatively well off (low-middle class or higher). 15 is not very young to work part-time, either. I'm not sure what the issue is. It's not like he's making the kid do some specific horrible job, right? Most minimum wage jobs are boring and sometimes stressful but not exactly "suffering".
    -end of thread-

  10. #20
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    When we did manual work, it was working class. But now we no longer do manual work, manual work is now done for middle-class status.

    For instance, in Canberra we have high tech, up-market gyms almost everywhere. And Canberrans, who no longer do manual work, dress in expensive and fashionable leotards, and do manual work in the gyms as a form of status display.

    So manual work is now longer valued for money, but for status.
    ...or for keeping your body healthy!
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

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