Feminism SUCKS.

[unnamed]

I don't think that definition has EVER fit "all of it." Like many ideologies, feminism has a whole bunch of sub-factions and they can sometimes be at odds with each other, and I think that's been true for a pretty long time (in the West probably at least since some basic freedoms were won e.g. voting and owning property- since before then, everyone who might have aligned themselves with a faction within feminism tried to unite to get that shit done). Half the world's population is women and treatment of women varies widely from culture to culture, so what any specific group of feminists are reacting to will inform their ideology. Even within a single culture there are factions- in the US you've got your sex-positive feminists, socialist feminists, family-oriented feminists (that would be me), ecofeminists, intersectional feminists (that would also be me), and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head before I got tired of thinking about it.

Here are two definitions of feminism from people who are pretty closely linked to various arms of the movement themselves:

Gloria Steinem:
"The belief in full economic political and social equality of males and females . . . usually seen as a modern movement to transform the male-dominant past and create an egalitarian future. On this and other continents, however, feminism is also history and even memory"

Barbara Smith and Gwendolyn Mink (not as recognizable outside of feminism, but inside scholarly feminism they are pretty ubiquitous):
"Feminism articulates political opposition to the subordination of women as women, whether that subordination is ascribed by law, imposed by social convention, or inflicted by individual men and women. Feminism also offers alternatives to existing unequal relations of gender power, and these alternatives have formed the agenda for feminism movements"

Do I have human rights if I against/disagree it?
Anyway,this thread shows how compassionate feminists are.Even I said I got insult on first post.
The "equal pay" is really fair?I am not 100% agree.
Some kind of jobs need more physical strength ,if "equal pay" to male and female,is it fair to the employer?

 

[Ivy]

Thanks for responding to nothing I actually said in that post you quoted. It helps me understand your purpose here.

 

[Bamboo]

FWIW I think the numbers of people who would identify as feminists who are trying to establish a 'matriarchy' or get uneven control over men intentionally are low. If you asked them, of course they would claim they are only after equality.

That said, as it often goes, without a lot of emotional awareness the abused often become abusers and see the world through a lens of victimization - which can blindside them to their own misperceptions. People who cling the hardest to a sense of victimization start to pass blame for everything in their life onto whatever the "other" entity might be - after all, victimization isn't something that just happens to them - it's what they are. This human reaction happens to many people, not just women or feminists. Somehow people don't distinguish between being a victim but still being responsible for their actions, and start down a self-destructive path where they find ways to pass blame but never find ways to realize what they're really doing wrong and looking for a solution.

While I feel sympathetic toward groups who have those experiences, put simply, they're still screwing up.

This doesn't imply that all feminist's are acting like this, or that there aren't real experiences where the actions of others truly do inhibit your behavior. And as [MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] pointed out a few pages back, isn't their overcompensation understandable? But that doesn't mean it doesn't have real negative effects for everyone else. Regardless of being male, in the real world I get shit on by men and women alike and "being in the dominant group" doesn't make it much better. It would be harder to deal with if I had less opportunity, I understand and am grateful for that, but that doesn't excuse it.

Take a look at what might pass as "feminism" especially on sites seemingly populated by young people who have trouble expressing themselves, tumblr and apparently reddit for instance, and you'll see what I mean. A lot of hurt that turns into the projection of unreasonable or seemingly irrational demands.

(To take it a step further, put yourself in the shoes of someone with not particularly great reading comprehension and psychology skills and imagine how you'd react to what you see.)

 

[unnamed]

Thanks for responding to nothing I actually said in that post you quoted. It helps me understand your purpose here.

I just looking for more information about "equal pay",I don't know what are you talking about.

 

[skylights]

Feminism is a necessary and predictable reaction to historical male domination.

The "equal pay" is really fair?I am not 100% agree.
Some kind of jobs need more physical strength ,if "equal pay" to male and female,is it fair to the employer?

The point is that two employees performing the same job at the same capacity should be paid the same about, regardless of gender.

If an employee cannot perform a job requiring a certain level of strength, they should not be hired. And females have been scientifically shown to have better social relation skills - shouldn't we pay them more for that, then?

Regardless of being male, in the real world I get shit on by men and women alike and "being in the dominant group" doesn't make it much better. It would be harder to deal with if I had less opportunity, I understand and am grateful for that, but that doesn't excuse it.

True. I think militant feminism does a disservice to equality efforts.

 

[Typh0n]

FWIW I think the numbers of people who would identify as feminists who are trying to establish a 'matriarchy' or get uneven control over men intentionally are low. If you asked them, of course they would claim they are only after equality.

I beleive those who are trying to establish a matriarchy or get uneven control over men are not categorized as feminists but as female supremacists. And yes, they are few of them.

That said, as it often goes, without a lot of emotional awareness the abused often become abusers and see the world through a lens of victimization - which can blindside them to their own misperceptions. People who cling the hardest to a sense of victimization start to pass blame for everything in their life onto whatever the "other" entity might be - after all, victimization isn't something that just happens to them - it's what they are. This human reaction happens to many people, not just women or feminists. Somehow people don't distinguish between being a victim but still being responsible for their actions, and start down a self-destructive path where they find ways to pass blame but never find ways to realize what they're really doing wrong and looking for a solution.

Self-victimization is a universal human vice. Historically, I believe, it was men who behaved as if they were victims of women. Which why all sexism began. But since we live in a sort of "age of the priviledged minority", its easier to claim to be a victim if you are a woman, which ironic. Its ironic because women are not in terms of numbers of the population, a minority. They are a minority because they have less priviledges, the historical reason for that being that they are victimized by men, who victimize women in turn because they felt victimized. Oh, will this cycle ever end?

 

[Society]

some fuel for the fire:

 

[prplchknz]

it's my fault i was born female so now all the males must sufferrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! (is this what the op wants?)

 

[BlueScreen]

I find there are some advocates in many areas that can be annoying. Not always because they insult people, but more because they put those they represent in a box to make their point. For example, saying females or males are a certain way, when you are talking about 50% of the human population. At the same time, avocates usually stand for and do something important, in this case moving society toward equal rights for men and women. And for that reason I admire them.

 

[unnamed]

The point is that two employees performing the same job at the same capacity should be paid the same about, regardless of gender.

If an employee cannot perform a job requiring a certain level of strength, they should not be hired. And females have been scientifically shown to have better social relation skills - shouldn't we pay them more for that, then?

I said "Some kind of jobs need more physical strength".
I mean,the efficiency,employee X do the job better than employee Y,if they got "equal pay",is it truly fair?

 

[unnamed]

The point is that two employees performing the same job at the same capacity should be paid the same about, regardless of gender.

If an employee cannot perform a job requiring a certain level of strength, they should not be hired. And females have been scientifically shown to have better social relation skills - shouldn't we pay them more for that, then?

I said "Some kind of jobs need more physical strength".
I mean,the efficiency,employee X do the job better than employee Y,if they got "equal pay",is it truly fair?

 

[unnamed]

I find there are some advocates in many areas that can be annoying. Not always because they insult people, but more because they put those they represent in a box to make their point. For example, saying females or males are a certain way, when you are talking about 50% of the human population. At the same time, avocates usually stand for and do something important, in this case moving society toward equal rights for men and women. And for that reason I admire them.

 

[Poindexter Arachnid]

Who says people deserve "rights?"

 

[skylights]

Yes, I understood. Your gigantic font is unnecessary and pedantic.

As for fairness, it's rather complex, isn't it? How are you determining "better"? More consistent results? More accurate results? More efficiency overall? More harmonious interaction? A man will probably be more capable physically, but a woman will probably be more capable socially. What if the job entails elements of both?

It is amusing to me how simplistic you make all of this sound.

 

[unnamed]

Yes, I understood. Your gigantic font is unnecessary and pedantic.

As for fairness, it's rather complex, isn't it? How are you determining "better"? More consistent results? More accurate results? More efficiency overall? More harmonious interaction? A man will probably be more capable physically, but a woman will probably be more capable socially. What if the job entails elements of both?

It is amusing to me how simplistic you make all of this sound.

Just a kind of personal style.

What if the job entails elements of both?

I don't need to response your hypothesis,you can make you hypothesis very simplistic as you like.
Anyway,I think it's by the employee and employer ,100%"equal pay" is not fair.
Not just for the difference between male and female ,there's also with difference between work hard and not work hard.
In real world,I think most of jobs are not by forced.If the employee and employer agree "not equal pay",I don't think others can represent them.

However,some of annoying and arrogant people believe themselves can represent 50% population.

 

[skylights]

If the employee and employer agree "not equal pay",I don't think others can represent them.

That's true, but feminists don't usually have a problem with that. The problem is that across the globe, women doing the same job as men at the same quality level as men are getting paid less money for no reason besides them being female.

To explain this, employers will say things like "women are more likely to leave the company to have children", which might be true on average, but is not fair for the individual woman who may never leave the company to have children.

 

[unnamed]

To explain this, employers will say things like "women are more likely to leave the company to have children", which might be true on average, but is not fair for the individual woman who may never leave the company to have children.

You can't represent all of employers...

women doing the same job as men at the same quality level as men are getting paid less money for no reason besides them being female.

I think this is their free will to choose less pay,I discovered that female is not tend to organize trade unions.

 

[digesthisickness]

You can't represent all of employers...


I think this is their free will to choose less pay,I discovered that female is not tend to organize trade unions.

 

[unnamed]

View attachment 9432

I knew them,but most of trade unions in here I heard is organize by male.

 

[digesthisickness]

I knew them,but most of trade unions in here I heard is organize by male.

So? Unless you see them picketing the men and telling them they refuse to take the money, then I don't see your point. First you think women should be less "violent" then you think they're not aggressive enough. They can't win with you no matter what they do.