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Thread: Feminism SUCKS.

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think that definition has EVER fit "all of it." Like many ideologies, feminism has a whole bunch of sub-factions and they can sometimes be at odds with each other, and I think that's been true for a pretty long time (in the West probably at least since some basic freedoms were won e.g. voting and owning property- since before then, everyone who might have aligned themselves with a faction within feminism tried to unite to get that shit done). Half the world's population is women and treatment of women varies widely from culture to culture, so what any specific group of feminists are reacting to will inform their ideology. Even within a single culture there are factions- in the US you've got your sex-positive feminists, socialist feminists, family-oriented feminists (that would be me), ecofeminists, intersectional feminists (that would also be me), and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head before I got tired of thinking about it.

    Here are two definitions of feminism from people who are pretty closely linked to various arms of the movement themselves:

    Gloria Steinem:
    "The belief in full economic political and social equality of males and females . . . usually seen as a modern movement to transform the male-dominant past and create an egalitarian future. On this and other continents, however, feminism is also history and even memory"

    Barbara Smith and Gwendolyn Mink (not as recognizable outside of feminism, but inside scholarly feminism they are pretty ubiquitous):
    "Feminism articulates political opposition to the subordination of women as women, whether that subordination is ascribed by law, imposed by social convention, or inflicted by individual men and women. Feminism also offers alternatives to existing unequal relations of gender power, and these alternatives have formed the agenda for feminism movements"
    Do I have human rights if I against/disagree it?
    Anyway,this thread shows how compassionate feminists are.Even I said I got insult on first post.
    The "equal pay" is really fair?I am not 100% agree.
    Some kind of jobs need more physical strength ,if "equal pay" to male and female,is it fair to the employer?

  2. #142
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Thanks for responding to nothing I actually said in that post you quoted. It helps me understand your purpose here.

  3. #143
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    FWIW I think the numbers of people who would identify as feminists who are trying to establish a 'matriarchy' or get uneven control over men intentionally are low. If you asked them, of course they would claim they are only after equality.

    That said, as it often goes, without a lot of emotional awareness the abused often become abusers and see the world through a lens of victimization - which can blindside them to their own misperceptions. People who cling the hardest to a sense of victimization start to pass blame for everything in their life onto whatever the "other" entity might be - after all, victimization isn't something that just happens to them - it's what they are. This human reaction happens to many people, not just women or feminists. Somehow people don't distinguish between being a victim but still being responsible for their actions, and start down a self-destructive path where they find ways to pass blame but never find ways to realize what they're really doing wrong and looking for a solution.

    While I feel sympathetic toward groups who have those experiences, put simply, they're still screwing up.

    This doesn't imply that all feminist's are acting like this, or that there aren't real experiences where the actions of others truly do inhibit your behavior. And as @fia pointed out a few pages back, isn't their overcompensation understandable? But that doesn't mean it doesn't have real negative effects for everyone else. Regardless of being male, in the real world I get shit on by men and women alike and "being in the dominant group" doesn't make it much better. It would be harder to deal with if I had less opportunity, I understand and am grateful for that, but that doesn't excuse it.

    Take a look at what might pass as "feminism" especially on sites seemingly populated by young people who have trouble expressing themselves, tumblr and apparently reddit for instance, and you'll see what I mean. A lot of hurt that turns into the projection of unreasonable or seemingly irrational demands.

    (To take it a step further, put yourself in the shoes of someone with not particularly great reading comprehension and psychology skills and imagine how you'd react to what you see.)
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Thanks for responding to nothing I actually said in that post you quoted. It helps me understand your purpose here.
    I just looking for more information about "equal pay",I don't know what are you talking about.

  5. #145
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Default Feminism is a necessary and predictable reaction to historical male domination.

    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post
    The "equal pay" is really fair?I am not 100% agree.
    Some kind of jobs need more physical strength ,if "equal pay" to male and female,is it fair to the employer?
    The point is that two employees performing the same job at the same capacity should be paid the same about, regardless of gender.

    If an employee cannot perform a job requiring a certain level of strength, they should not be hired. And females have been scientifically shown to have better social relation skills - shouldn't we pay them more for that, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo
    Regardless of being male, in the real world I get shit on by men and women alike and "being in the dominant group" doesn't make it much better. It would be harder to deal with if I had less opportunity, I understand and am grateful for that, but that doesn't excuse it.
    True. I think militant feminism does a disservice to equality efforts.

  6. #146
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    FWIW I think the numbers of people who would identify as feminists who are trying to establish a 'matriarchy' or get uneven control over men intentionally are low. If you asked them, of course they would claim they are only after equality.
    I beleive those who are trying to establish a matriarchy or get uneven control over men are not categorized as feminists but as female supremacists. And yes, they are few of them.

    That said, as it often goes, without a lot of emotional awareness the abused often become abusers and see the world through a lens of victimization - which can blindside them to their own misperceptions. People who cling the hardest to a sense of victimization start to pass blame for everything in their life onto whatever the "other" entity might be - after all, victimization isn't something that just happens to them - it's what they are. This human reaction happens to many people, not just women or feminists. Somehow people don't distinguish between being a victim but still being responsible for their actions, and start down a self-destructive path where they find ways to pass blame but never find ways to realize what they're really doing wrong and looking for a solution.

    Self-victimization is a universal human vice. Historically, I believe, it was men who behaved as if they were victims of women. Which why all sexism began. But since we live in a sort of "age of the priviledged minority", its easier to claim to be a victim if you are a woman, which ironic. Its ironic because women are not in terms of numbers of the population, a minority. They are a minority because they have less priviledges, the historical reason for that being that they are victimized by men, who victimize women in turn because they felt victimized. Oh, will this cycle ever end?

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    some fuel for the fire:


  8. #148
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    it's my fault i was born female so now all the males must sufferrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! (is this what the op wants?)
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #149

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    I find there are some advocates in many areas that can be annoying. Not always because they insult people, but more because they put those they represent in a box to make their point. For example, saying females or males are a certain way, when you are talking about 50% of the human population. At the same time, avocates usually stand for and do something important, in this case moving society toward equal rights for men and women. And for that reason I admire them.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    The point is that two employees performing the same job at the same capacity should be paid the same about, regardless of gender.

    If an employee cannot perform a job requiring a certain level of strength, they should not be hired. And females have been scientifically shown to have better social relation skills - shouldn't we pay them more for that, then?
    I said "Some kind of jobs need more physical strength".
    I mean,the efficiency,employee X do the job better than employee Y,if they got "equal pay",is it truly fair?

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