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Thread: Feminism SUCKS.

  1. #131
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post
    It sounds can't happen in USA,legally.If you are talking about islamic countries,I guess most of people in here know I hate Islam.
    Right, so we can agree that those would be unequal? It's not purely subjective.

    And in the U.S. women have not always had the right to vote. We got the right to vote in national elections less than 100 years ago.

    It was legal for men to beat their wives here until 1871. It still happens a lot, but it's not legal.

    Husbands gained their wives' property upon marriage until 1839.

    We didn't have the right to equal pay until 1963. And that's still only a right on paper.

    Those are all things women's rights activists (aka feminists) fought for.

    They didn't call themselves humanists because male humans already had a lot of those rights, especially if they happened to be white.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #132
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unnamed View Post
    I found a logic issue,the human education system is controlled by female more than male.The mothers,kindergarten/primary school teachers,if they are suppose the values of gender equality,they should instill their gender equality values to children,but I didn't see that way.
    Reminding those authoritarian regimes...
    I found your "fur example" funny, tho it's highly detailed . The sentence I quoted tho is a very clever finding of yours. Of course thats no scapegoat that suffices to continue giving woman worse wages than men and keep them back from promotions in the career life. But it brings another very intresting point to light, which is one male people suffer from as well: since "making a career" wasnt the typical female way, there are less woman in the business world than there are men. Those woman who are in the business world try to give their best to be successful and they try to be competent. That would be the base problem regarding high wager and promotions. Upper management values "mindless drones" in the workspace, those people get in most institutions and companies promoted fast, cause they are controllable and can deal with the unintresting tasks. The more eager a person is, the more difficult it is to get promoted. This a fact that applies to females as well as to males. That would be a highly detailed example as well, but sadly it is true.

    Regarding feminism at the end of the day I tend to think: we are all humans and humans still have to prove if they are worth it to continue as a civilization at all. In my book so far, they have very bad cards for that. I have a female boss and gender's never an issue for me, I treat her as a neutrum, like I treat everybody. Since I am not the typical male and tend to have better conversations with woman than with men, it may be a special case for me. But after 3 years working for her, it never crossed my mind that she did something because of her gender. She's damn good at what she does and I learnt alot from her, thats all that matters to me.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #133
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    To be fair, the "feminist" movement has been undergoing a bit of evolution (or devolution depending on which facet you choose to look at) and that simple definition doesn't really fit all of it anymore. To pick a completely random example in order to better illustrate what I mean, "trolling" used to mean a specific method of trying to irritate people using logical fallacies, but now it encompasses much more than was originally intended and is used to describe everything up to and including just being an asshole.

    I know this has already been postulated, but are we talking about those who believe that women deserve the same rights as men, or are we talking about people like the retards on Shit Reddit Says (SRS)? If we're all thinking about different definitions of feminism, this conversation won't get anywhere.

    ...Back to lurking.
    ...

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    To be fair, the "feminist" movement has been undergoing a bit of evolution (or devolution depending on which facet you choose to look at) and that simple definition doesn't really fit all of it anymore. To pick a completely random example in order to better illustrate what I mean, "trolling" used to mean a specific method of trying to irritate people using logical fallacies, but now it encompasses much more than was originally intended and is used to describe everything up to and including just being an asshole.

    I know this has already been postulated, but are we talking about those who believe that women deserve the same rights as men, or are we talking about people like the retards on Shit Reddit Says (SRS)? If we're all thinking about different definitions of feminism, this conversation won't get anywhere.

    ...Back to lurking.
    So reddit is a reliable source for defining feminism, but Webster's is not?

    I am not on reddit, so I can't say, but does it advocate the creation of a matriarchal society? Because that is how unnamed is defining feminism. She doesn't want to offer a source for this definition and it's not something I've heard advocated by feminists, so I would imagine if we're going to consider her definition of feminism valid, there isn't anything to debate.

    In that case, it would be more accurate for the thread title to be "Matriarchy SUCKS." That would be a cool thing to look at. I mean, there aren't a lot of matriarchal societies, but you could still compare and contrast . . .
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  5. #135
    ... Tyrinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    So reddit is a reliable source for defining feminism, but Webster's is not?

    I am not on reddit, so I can't say, but does it advocate the creation of a matriarchal society? Because that is how unnamed is defining feminism. She doesn't want to offer a source for this definition and it's not something I've heard advocated by feminists, so I would imagine if we're going to consider her definition of feminism valid, there isn't anything to debate.

    In that case, it would be more accurate for the thread title to be "Matriarchy SUCKS." That would be a cool thing to look at. I mean, there aren't a lot of matriarchal societies, but you could still compare and contrast . . .
    I'm not saying it's a reliable source for defining anything. It is, however, a place where you can see some self-professed "feminists" of a different type than what you alluded to by using that definition. ...And, yeah, they seem to advocate a somewhat matriarchal society.

    The only reason I mentioned it is that it seemed to be more in line with the type of "feminism" that is being denounced in this thread.

    Anyway, I didn't intend on getting involved in this thread, so please don't quote me again or anything. I just wanted to bring that up, but it wouldn't fit in a reputation.
    ...

  6. #136
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    In that case, it would be more accurate for the thread title to be "Matriarchy SUCKS." That would be a cool thing to look at. I mean, there aren't a lot of matriarchal societies, but you could still compare and contrast . . .
    Actually I know of one rural Chinese tribe where it's pretty much a matriarchal society. It's a tightly-knitted community, where everyone lives at their grandmother's house and help out with work during the day, and guys go around at night serenading under windows, and if a girl likes him she lets him up to her room. When the baby is born, it doesn't really matter who the father is, the mother's family raises it, and the child grows up to be a member of the mom's family. Doesn't sound so bad right?
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Actually I know of one rural Chinese tribe where it's pretty much a matriarchal society. It's a tightly-knitted community, where everyone lives at their grandmother's house and help out with work during the day, and guys go around at night serenading under windows, and if a girl likes him she lets him up to her room. When the baby is born, it doesn't really matter who the father is, the mother's family raises it, and the child grows up to be a member of the mom's family. Doesn't sound so bad right?
    god damn it that does sound prefect

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    Actually I know of one rural Chinese tribe where it's pretty much a matriarchal society. It's a tightly-knitted community, where everyone lives at their grandmother's house and help out with work during the day, and guys go around at night serenading under windows, and if a girl likes him she lets him up to her room. When the baby is born, it doesn't really matter who the father is, the mother's family raises it, and the child grows up to be a member of the mom's family. Doesn't sound so bad right?
    I can think of worse things. Of course, I was mostly raised by my mother and grandmother and didn't know who my father was until I was twenty-seven, so my perspective might be a little skewed.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #139
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrinth View Post
    To be fair, the "feminist" movement has been undergoing a bit of evolution (or devolution depending on which facet you choose to look at) and that simple definition doesn't really fit all of it anymore. To pick a completely random example in order to better illustrate what I mean, "trolling" used to mean a specific method of trying to irritate people using logical fallacies, but now it encompasses much more than was originally intended and is used to describe everything up to and including just being an asshole.

    I know this has already been postulated, but are we talking about those who believe that women deserve the same rights as men, or are we talking about people like the retards on Shit Reddit Says (SRS)? If we're all thinking about different definitions of feminism, this conversation won't get anywhere.

    ...Back to lurking.
    I don't think that definition has EVER fit "all of it." Like many ideologies, feminism has a whole bunch of sub-factions and they can sometimes be at odds with each other, and I think that's been true for a pretty long time (in the West probably at least since some basic freedoms were won e.g. voting and owning property- since before then, everyone who might have aligned themselves with a faction within feminism tried to unite to get that shit done). Half the world's population is women and treatment of women varies widely from culture to culture, so what any specific group of feminists are reacting to will inform their ideology. Even within a single culture there are factions- in the US you've got your sex-positive feminists, socialist feminists, family-oriented feminists (that would be me), ecofeminists, intersectional feminists (that would also be me), and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head before I got tired of thinking about it.

    Here are two definitions of feminism from people who are pretty closely linked to various arms of the movement themselves:

    Gloria Steinem:
    "The belief in full economic political and social equality of males and females . . . usually seen as a modern movement to transform the male-dominant past and create an egalitarian future. On this and other continents, however, feminism is also history and even memory"

    Barbara Smith and Gwendolyn Mink (not as recognizable outside of feminism, but inside scholarly feminism they are pretty ubiquitous):
    "Feminism articulates political opposition to the subordination of women as women, whether that subordination is ascribed by law, imposed by social convention, or inflicted by individual men and women. Feminism also offers alternatives to existing unequal relations of gender power, and these alternatives have formed the agenda for feminism movements"

  10. #140

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    To be honest there's some really interesting and weird varieties of feminism, like the Amazons or radicals, who deserve credit for just making the world a little more colourful for their existence and passing by.

    Place could be totally fucked up if their hoped for transformation ever came to pass but I'm sort of beginning to think the same of every single ideology there is.

    The diversity, disparity, conflict and competition serves life more than monolithic or singularity of opinion, there can only be one truth but what I've described helps in the search for it, its definitely not stultifying or fossilising.

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