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  1. #101
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I have that on a shirt. But it has text:

    HA! I love that, I absolutely love that

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I think Good and Evil are something subjective, but still have an impact on the way we choose to live our lives. I dont belive in the same standards of Good for all, I dont dictate that, but Im not a nihilist who believes morals are nonexistant either. I believe as humans we experience "good" in our spirtual lives, but I think what cosntitutes good depends on each individual and that individual's manner of relating to others.
    I don't believe Morality exists at all, in any real sense. Ethical opinions come down to either our emotions, or our reason. They mean nothing when it comes to saying whether something is REALLY right or wrong. They basically just say either "I don't like this" or "I think society would be better if..." The reason I don't go out and murder someone is because it would make me feel bad to see the other person in pain, not because it's Wrong in any weird universal way.

    So if you accept that (and most people won't), then we move onto the idea that God is seen as good - which by now would be a contradictory claim and therefore unlikely in my eyes. By what standard is god good? If it's by standards outside of himself, then God is irrelevant to Goodness. If it's by his own standards, then it's just God's personal opinion and means nothing at all.

    If God is not Good, Angels cannot either, and Demons cannot be Evil. Blah Blah you get the point.

    I'm boring myself now lol.

  3. #103
    window shopper Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    I don't believe Morality exists at all, in any real sense. Ethical opinions come down to either our emotions, or our reason. They mean nothing when it comes to saying whether something is REALLY right or wrong. They basically just say either "I don't like this" or "I think society would be better if..." The reason I don't go out and murder someone is because it would make me feel bad to see the other person in pain, not because it's Wrong in any weird universal way.

    So if you accept that (and most people won't), then we move onto the idea that God is seen as good - which by now would be a contradictory claim and therefore unlikely in my eyes. By what standard is god good? If it's by standards outside of himself, then God is irrelevant to Goodness. If it's by his own standards, then it's just God's personal opinion and means nothing at all.

    If God is not Good, Angels cannot either, and Demons cannot be Evil. Blah Blah you get the point.

    I'm boring myself now lol.
    God is Good? Dun dun dun .... what about...Is God Evil?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    God is Good? Dun dun dun .... what about...Is God Evil?
    Lol it's a defining characteristic among most theists.

  5. #105
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    The reason I don't go out and murder someone is because it would make me feel bad to see the other person in pain, not because it's Wrong in any weird universal way.
    That's a reason to not kill a person in a painful way not a reason to not kill a person. Remember what I said about practicality only being a matter of how you achieve the ends you desire?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    That's a reason to not kill a person in a painful way not a reason to not kill a person. Remember what I said about practicality only being a matter of how you achieve the ends you desire?
    I'd go along with that. Painless murders are a lot better. But I'd still (a) feel bad for their family and friends, (b) need a good reason to do the killing. And a method that means I won't get caught by those pesky police haha.

    We've been through this. You still haven't given me any arguments why morality would exist. It is NOT "self-evident".

  7. #107
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    I don't really believe in angels, despite being a christian. My faith is in god and that's about it.

  8. #108
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    I'd go along with that. Painless murders are a lot better. But I'd still (a) feel bad for their family and friends, (b) need a good reason to do the killing. And a method that means I won't get caught by those pesky police haha.
    A) That's just a matter of emotional manipulation in your view.

    B) No you don't need a good reason in your worldview. Because nothing is good, remember? You can do whatever you want. The police then are just using their power to control you and manipulate you to their will.

    We've been through this. You still haven't given me any arguments why morality would exist. It is NOT "self-evident".
    I'll return to that. I'm more concerned that you don't even know why you aren't going to become a murderer.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    A) That's just a matter of emotional manipulation in your view.

    B) No you don't need a good reason in your worldview. Because nothing is good, remember? You can do whatever you want. The police then are just using their power to control you and manipulate you to their will.



    I'll return to that. I'm more concerned that you don't even know why you aren't going to become a murderer.
    What is Morality in your view then? You haven't told me your own thoughts. You can't just believe in something because you dislike the alternative.

    You hit the nail on the head - the reason is because I don't WANT to kill anyone. Why would I? Why do you think people who disagree with you are murderers?

  10. #110
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    Lol it's a defining characteristic among most theists.
    Well, I wouldnt have said that all athiests, or even rationalists, were amoral but since you've categorically stated so who's to argue with that?

    I guess I'm just glad that for the majority of human history morality and belief in God has ruled instead.

    I mean if that wherent so we may not even be having this discussion.

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