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  1. #51
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post

    So, God doesn't exist? (does not need to be by the book.) Prove it.
    You can't prove the non existence of something. But you can prove if something truly exists. That's why I wrote that "non-A is not equivalent to A", according to mathematics. The absence of a phenomena is not related to its hypothetical presence.

    The absence of sugar in coffee is not a taste.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    So, God doesn't exist? (does not need to be by the book.) Prove it.
    prove to me that the tooth fairy doesn't exist - on the planet Toothia, in the pixiedust dimension.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Ohh? God does exist? Prove it.
    why? every reason to think he doesn't just provoke further the need to have faith to believe that he does, which is clearly his plan.

  3. #53
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You can't prove the non existence of something. But you can prove if something exists or not. That's why I wrote that "non-A is not equivalent to A", according to mathematics. The absence of a phenomena is not related to its hypothetical presence.

    The absence of sugar in coffee is not a taste.
    What was that saying? A theory is only the most probable evidence we have until proven false? It isn't definitive, but only likely.

    What is this "non existence" you are talking about. You can't prove the non-existence of something if you haven't met it, especially if it is something that could of made the universe. *cough* the many theories being spun around about the creation of the universe. *cough*

    It is like saying the earth is flat only until later that you find that it is spherical (even this definition is incorrect) as it is more of an oblong like shape.

  4. #54
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    prove to me that the tooth fairy doesn't exist - on the planet Toothia, in the pixiedust dimension.



    why? every reason to think he doesn't just provoke further the need to have faith to believe that he does, which is clearly his plan.
    I'm the one asking the question here, as I am an agnostic seeking knowledge.

    You, however, believe that you have the knowledge.

    The evidence rest in your hands, not mines. It is your idea to prove that the tooth fairy on the planet Toothia in the pixeldust dimension doesn't exist. YOU are the one exerting the assumption here. As many scientists learn, they learn to prove their theory and bring it to everyone else in the scientific community to follow. I wouldn't suggest you go proving it in a scientific way, however.

    Ohh, and by the way, have you heard of the many theories being made about multi-dimensions - fascinating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    I'm the one asking the question here, as I am an agnostic seeking knowledge.

    You, however, believe that you have the knowledge..
    hrm? i answered that a few posts ago. do you need me to go into the distinction between tea pot agnostic and atheist?

  6. #56
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    the term "agnostic" is often colloquially used as this unsure, neutral ground.
    I would have thought 'agnostic' means not knowing, not knowing whether deities exist or not knowing whether deities don't exist.

    Commonly it is said, we can't prove a particular god exists and we can't prove a particular god doesn't exist.

    And this is quite separate from the probability of particular god's existence.

    So we can't prove that Poseidon, the god of the sea, does or doesn't exist, but most of us think the existence of Poseidon is improbable, and the same probability exists for all the other gods

  7. #57
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    Agnosticism and Imagination

    I think it is very important to emphasise that agnosticism allows us to suspend our disbelief in gods, art and movies.

    The suspension of disbelief is known as imagination. And our very culture is based on imagination.

    So agnosticism and imagination are great mates.

  8. #58
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    hrm? i answered that a few posts ago. do you need me to go into the distinction between tea pot agnostic and atheist?
    Does not prove a thing. As a teapot is different from a god.

    As an orbiting teapot from out of space can be extracted, a god (in this case, a Christian god) cannot be extracted easily. You are trying to equate something that is purely physical to something that could be physical as much as non-physical. That analogy falls flat.

    There are things that are quantifiable, yes, the age of earth. What is still left to debate is how the universe is created, and a theory is still a theory on how it was created.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I would have thought 'agnostic' means not knowing, not knowing whether deities exist or not knowing whether deities don't exist.

    Commonly it is said, we can't prove a particular god exists and we can't prove a particular god doesn't exist.
    Right.

    And this is quite separate from the probability of particular god's existence.
    Thing is, some people use the word "agnostic" (incorrectly) to define this middle position of probability. Some take issue with this as it is not using the word the correct way. However, I don't see anything wrong with it. Words can change meaning over time. The word "gay" used to simply mean "happy," but it now mainly means "homosexual." Just let people use the words the way they do or come up with a one we can all agree on.

    So we can't prove that Poseidon, the god of the sea, does or doesn't exist, but most of us think the existence of Poseidon is improbable, and the same probability exists for all the other gods
    And thus we make the jump to atheism. I agree with this logic, but the question was not really directed at me. I don't think agnosticism is related to perceiving types, but I could see why one would think that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Does not prove a thing. As a teapot is different from a god.

    As an orbiting teapot from out of space can be extracted, a god (in this case, a Christian god) cannot be extracted easily. You are trying to equate something that is purely physical to something that could be physical as much as non-physical. That analogy falls flat.

    There are things that are quantifiable, yes, the age of earth. What is still left to debate is how the universe is created, and a theory is still a theory on how it was created.
    3rd time? ok...
    ...go on reading...
    ...there's more there...

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