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  1. #11
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  2. #12
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    no, not trying to be hurtful nor do i consider it discredited because its' from you, it simply doesn't provide a point of contrast:
    a case where you are kind and fair doesn't mean there aren't cases where you aren't, or vise versa. you are a person, not a shallow black & white sheet of paper. evidence that someone is on the light or dark side might work for a D&D character or a SW jedi, but presumably you exist in... you know... real life.

    not putting you in the same category, but to illustrate the point by taking it to the extreme - you've mentioned this guy:

    even he - most likely - at some point in his life helped and old lady across the street. also i've being told he was quite a gracious host, a rather pleasant fellow. the fact is - he was beloved by millions. yet none of those would provide any contrast against the events of the holocaust and WW2.
    Read up on his niece. Stories of his graciousness are highly overrated. I get what you are saying and I will try to come back with a more developed position. I've known men who are like Hitler from the inside, of seeing them fool people with false graciousness, win awards, and have successful careers. Being a gracious host is being a skilled performer. It is like seeing someone sing an opera and assume they deeply understand tragedy, when in reality they can be a complete airhead. Yes people are layered, but there are some who are genuinely good or cruel. There are habitual trends and intentions that help to define us. I'll get back with info about Hitler's niece because combined with the anecdotes of his "graciousness" I suspect a greater sense of coherency will emerge.

    Even though human beings are capable of deep cognitive dissonance and inconsistencies, when you look deeper than one-dimensional traits, you find inconsistency, but looking deeper still to a sense of every cause and effect, a sense of coherency re-emerges.

    Here's Hitler being a wonderful, supportive uncle. This right here provides complete coherency for all conflicting reports on Hitler... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geli_Raubal
    Last edited by labyrinthine; 05-14-2013 at 04:39 PM. Reason: I moved this from a thread where it was becoming off topic.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  3. #13
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Default Psychological coherency

    While I explored some specifics from Hitler's life, I do so to illustrate a point, and I also think this is a topic that needs to be continually remapped to reality in order to remain legitimate.

    There are a couple of core ways to break down the complexities of the human psyche to make sense of ethical inconsistencies.

    First is to explore a sense of Self and Other. When an individual values self at the expense of others, then this can lead to arrogance which is akin to dismissal of others. In its most extreme cases this is expressedin the dehumanization of others.

    The second is to determine how Self is defined. If Self includes a partner, pet, child, country, etc, then the individual may protect those within that circle of Self even if they have fully dismissed the rights of Other.

    There is no Self or all is Self. When the entire construct of Self and Other are dismantled, it can lead to a distilled result. When we look deeply enough at the Self, we begin to see cause and effects, and that based on how we are comprised, we have the capacity to be anyone. There are other philosophies that break down this sense of Self and can lead to altruism, at least in theory.

    I do think there is an inherent logic to equating the needs of Self as one instance of a human being with the needs of another person who is also a human being. If we exhibit an abhorrent level of cruelty towards one being, I think it does limit the ability for compassion towards any other. Edit: And vice versa. True, deep compassion towards even one limits our capacity for cruelty.
    Last edited by labyrinthine; 05-14-2013 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  4. #14
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Ethics isn't black and white. /thread

    Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice guy and an animal lover. Hitler too for that matter. Apparently Ghandi was a pedophile.. Lol.

  5. #15
    Ginkgo
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    It means that, for most people, an ambitious guy has to be cool with grandma before he's allowed to declare war and genocide.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    its a thought i've been toying with, probably has happened at some point but that's besides the point...

    what does the statement says to you? what meaning would you derive from it?
    What is the statement? That Hitler helped an old lady across a road?

    Is it that there is a redeeming quality in the worst? That an individual may be personally different to the role they play social or historical movements or trends?

    I need more information to say.

    Any time Hitler comes up in discussion though I think of Erich Fromm's view about him, he was an ordinary man, not a devil or a great being or anything of the kind but just and ordinary man with extraordinary power and it is the extraordinary power part which is the truly terrible thing.

  7. #17
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    Ethics isn't black and white. /thread

    Jeffrey Dahmer was a nice guy and an animal lover. Hitler too for that matter. Apparently Ghandi was a pedophile.. Lol.
    Supporting evidence?

    Also, can you elaborate on your theory as to why such inconsistencies could theoretically exist in the same person? An analysis with some kind of psychological or at least experiential foundation?

    Edit: Apparently Dahmer loved animals enough to drag dead ones home, dissect them, place their heads on sticks, leave rotting carcasses in the basement, and he did a "nice" impression of his mother's interior decorator who had cerebral palsy. I suspect some of your other assumptions require a little investigation as well...
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #18
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Supporting evidence?

    Also, can you elaborate on your theory as to why such inconsistencies could theoretically exist in the same person? An analysis with some kind of psychological or at least experiential foundation?
    Evidence for what? And elaborate? No, too lazy lol. Sorry. I'm not at school.

  9. #19
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
    Evidence for what? And elaborate? No, too lazy lol. Sorry. I'm not at school.
    Evidence for the supposed facts you state. Gawd.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  10. #20
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Evidence for the supposed facts you state. Gawd.
    I cba to google for you.

    Oh and, Dahmer loved DISSECTING *DEAD* animals. He never once killed an animal. He never tortured an animal. He never even tortured any of his victims for that matter either.

    He had a dog when he was young (whom he loved and was deeply affected when it passed), he even nursed an injured bird he found and released it back into the wild. He also kept a spotless aquarium in his adult years. Even when his life was in ruins.

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