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View Poll Results: In a certain light, wouldn't nuclear war be exciting?

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  • Yes

    21 52.50%
  • No

    19 47.50%
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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    i think i can answer that (grew up with Fi users)...
    in a sentiment that would seem so obvious to them that i can trust neither you or i or quite possibly any NT will ever be able to fully grok.

    "its true for me"
    LOL nothing annoys me more than statements like that!

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    LOL nothing annoys me more than statements like that!
    because there's no way to go with it, it essentially saying "i belong to my own reality and what you think ain't part of it".

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    because there's no way to go with it, it essentially saying "i belong to my own reality and what you think ain't part of it".
    Exactly, it's very strange.

    But surely not all Fi users are like that? I can't believe many people would be able to think in such an unreasonable way, regardless of their MBTI type.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    I think the biggest thing I don't understand about the Fi thing is this: If you say you don't like something, and another person says they do, and both people are speaking honestly and it's just as important to both of them, then how can you still believe so strongly in your own personal Fi judgement when it's effectively been canceled out by another person's emotional opinion? Are yours more true than anyone else's? Sorry, the thought's just been bugging me a little because I can't figure it out lol!
    Well, Fe seems to like assuming that other people's emotional opinions are equally valid, which is probably your issue with how Fi operates to begin with. How can you determine which emotional opinions carry more weight when there is no real standard for determining that? Just because something is important to one person, does not mean that is important to someone else. Also, belief doesn't have to have basis in some kind of external truth that is tangible to others. People have a hard time understanding that. As for Fi, it's having personal value judgments based on your perceptions of certain things. It is not concerned with true/false as much as right and wrong and what responses the object elicits in the subject.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    Exactly, it's very strange.

    But surely not all Fi users are like that? I can't believe many people would be able to think in such an unreasonable way, regardless of their MBTI type.
    no, not all Fi users are like that... not all FPs, and not all people who are like that are Fi doms. it's just that this specific philosophical meme seems to appeal more to many of them - it's a useful dealing mechanism for emotional dissonance, and they suffer less cognitive dissonance as a result of embracing it.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless Beauty View Post
    Well, Fe seems to like assuming that other people's emotional opinions are equally valid, which is probably your issue with how Fi operates to begin with. How can you determine which emotional opinions carry more weight when there is no real standard for determining that? Just because something is important to one person, does not mean that is important to someone else. Also, belief doesn't have to have basis in some kind of external truth that is tangible to others. People have a hard time understanding that. As for Fi, it's having personal value judgments based on your perceptions of certain things. It is not concerned with true/false as much as right and wrong and what responses the object elicits in the subject.
    screw the question of validity: we live in a world involving around 7 billion skulls whose content is capable of human emotions, what's in there is in there - a real and existing pattern of matter and energy, expressing themselves in various ways that our minds are adapted to picking up and recognizing while associating with the most similar pattern of matter and energy within ourselves. its all there and it exists.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    screw the question of validity: we live in a world involving around 7 billion skulls whose content is capable of human emotions, what's in there is in there - a real and existing pattern of matter and energy, expressing themselves in various ways that our minds are adapted to picking up and recognizing while associating with the most similar pattern of matter and energy within ourselves. its all there and it exists.
    But of course. However, my point was that to call emotions of two different people equally valid and thus cancelling each other out doesn't seem justified.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."-Roger Kint, The Usual Suspects
    "You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."- Tyler Durden, Fight Club
    ENTJ, LIE-Ni, 9w8-6w5-3w2

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless Beauty View Post
    But of course. However, my point was that to call emotions of two different people equally valid and thus cancelling each other out doesn't seem justified.
    oh, missed that part. but it does sort of works for Fe - not because they cancel each other out in terms of validity, but because in a conflict, subconsciously or consciously, Fe is essentially trying to work the social map and seek allies. so in that sense, two people expressing conflicting opinions does increase the options.

    p.s.
    looking back at what @En Gallop wrote - i think she meant "if two Fi users can come up with opposing opinions, then how can you be sure your Fi knows right?"... it's not proposing that they cancel each other out necessarily, it's that it should insert a doubt in the Fi user belief that their Fi is right.

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What you are calling coherence testing seems to happen automatically, without conscious operation. I generally become aware first of the result. If I want more insight into the process, I have to look deliberately, and what I find is usually a tangled mess, until the end where it is untangled and coherent.
    Don't tell her I said so, but Marm's right about "What if" being more of an Ne thing. As a thought process it builds on conditions, so it's more reasonably associated with extroverted processes. But...

    There's some process by which stuff of the world is drawn away from the world. Elements of suggestions are taken away and toyed with and become more real by their connections to other schemes of thought than by their original connection to mud and blood and whatever concrete device spawned the suggestion. The tangled noodling doesn't strike me as incoherent so much as it is large. In that case there are two notions of coherence to consider. The more standard notion is of logical coherence, and seems to me to refer to moving imagery back toward the outside. The outside contains, or is taken to contain, the relatively more fixed standards of measure. The other notion of coherence is--well, I probably should have called it non-contradiction. I think for introverted perception the one standard we use for determining interest in options is to what degree and at what level, the new thought contradicts other images. There's a wide variety of levels of contradiction that make images more interesting, and it may be only fundamental contradiction that stops something being thought. But, yeah, I might be using "contradiction" in the wrong way here. It's not logical contradiction, but a state of disagreement between image content.

    That's introverted perception, I think. A process of creating depth of image by creating new images out of contrasts with old. So... "coherence testing", more or less.





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  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    I think the biggest thing I don't understand about the Fi thing is this: If you say you don't like something, and another person says they do, and both people are speaking honestly and it's just as important to both of them, then how can you still believe so strongly in your own personal Fi judgement when it's effectively been canceled out by another person's emotional opinion? Are yours more true than anyone else's? Sorry, the thought's just been bugging me a little because I can't figure it out lol!
    Fi tends to kind of believe that what's true for you is fine if its different from me as long as it doesn't hurt anybody, in the Fi user's estimation. I think if the Fi type sees real peril, then they'll say something, and if not, they won't.

    Being on the forum is a way for me to refine my ethics. Contrary to popular belief, I don't go around screaming in anyone's face, nor do I go around correcting other people's morals. My ESFJ friend did that. She would tell other people how to feel.

    Me, I don't do that. I passed myself off for YEARS living with my Argentine friends as the sweetest, nicest, quietest person. When they finally saw me get upset about something, it was impressive, like whoa what the fuck is she possessed. Because that's usually how chill I outwardly am, as long as people stay out of my space.

    I also recently rented from some Russians who lived in the same building as me, as they always thought of me as so nice and sweet, and other people actually had problems with them. I have no idea why.

    So the thing about Fi is that it's actually pretty hidden the vast majority of the time IRL. I think writing is a different matter entirely, which is probably why INFPs are stereotyped as authors/writers and ISFP as artists or song-writers. It all comes out then. Like screw you guys, I'm going home.

    But yes I do feel more strongly about some of my ethics than others. Of course. And if anyone messes with me or mine, they are asking for it.

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