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View Poll Results: In a certain light, wouldn't nuclear war be exciting?

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  • Yes

    21 52.50%
  • No

    19 47.50%
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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Because pretty soon new controversies caused us to forget to delete the rancid fruit of controversies past. That's being rectified as we speak.
    Oh I'm not complaining. I was just letting him know I didn't "get away" with anything, in case he linked that to try to get me reported without reporting me himself.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    And that's cool. Maybe if someone had said "unboring" twenty pages ago, I would have gotten it a lot sooner.




    YES...and that's why I keep saying it's Fi, and ENFPs like @skylights said she doesn't really feel excited about things she finds unpleasant to think about...Fi tends to feel very strongly about things.

    So a lot of people have said "don't feel strongly ethically about this" but if you're an Fi type, and take nuclear war seriously (ofc some people don't) then you're going to have a hard time putting it into perspective unless you calm down and use other functions.

    Fi types tend to lose it about different things, though; though you'll see some similarities of them largely not caring for human suffering or ugliness, they all have different ideas of precisely what that means, and which field they'll "specialize."

    Yes, that's apt, just like INTPs, Ti types, might academically specialize in a certain subject, I think Fi types "specialize" in a certain area, so to speak, they have stronger ethics about certain topics than others, and then on the rest they can be more like live and let live.
    That's an interesting way of thinking about Fi. It's something I've kind of wondered about before. So what creates the stronger feelings for certain subjects - a person's life experiences? As an INTP I don't really work that way, what with Fe and all.

    (I was going to send this in a PM, but it won't let me...)

  3. #243
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycerine View Post
    Well, war (including nuclear war) is typically "bad" because of the casualties and destruction so if someone derived fun from the situation, I would question their morals. How could one see things as "fun" when people and the world around them are being destroyed? There would a contradiction in how one experiences it while others suffer.
    Ignoring for the moment that moral judgment is relative to moral standards, rendering all such judgments ultimately subjective, I wonder how you can question my morals knowing only that I derive fun from some aspects of the situation and not, as a simplistic view might suggest, the situation in all its components, especially since you do not know what kind of scenario of nuclear war I am imagining and thus what kind of aspects I can shine a light on. I could be excited to see some destruction, of ugly buildings perhaps, some casualties, perhaps the inmates of a high-security prison for rapists, while deploring most of the other casualties and destruction. I could also be excited to see the dawn of a new era for the world, finally freed from human mistreatment.

    So I must ask: Is there necessarily something questionable about my morals if, in a certain light, I can find the prospect of nuclear war exciting?

  4. #244
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    If you'd pushed me more? So you mean if you intentionally trolled me?

    Why couldn't I get you banned for trolling then?

    I think this forum is kind of absurd, even @SolitaryWalker admitted he had gotten F types infracted by trolling them, because basically as an INTP he can keep his cool longer (though he did lose it once on me) ...but he was being immature, I told him about his being immature toward trolling those people here, and later he agreed.

    "If I don't push them, someone else will" isn't an excuse to troll people, just like it's not an excuse to physically push people.

    I actually am listening to people, you weren't really listening to me in many regards, and you still aren't.
    So, why are you falling for the oldest trick in the book? If you understand not only his overarching objective, but also the specific tactics he will employ to achieve it, why would you allow him to force you exactly into the position where he wants you to be?

    If you have already recognized Rasofy as your adversary, do you not have a modicum of strategic incentive to stop him from reaching his objective?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post

    Half the stuff that goes on here would never go on, on INTJforum, for example.

    If you really loved rules, you'd hang out on INTJforum. They know rules.
    You make me remind my experience on there,there is no rules.



  6. #246
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Trolling is against the rules, so no you don't take them seriously. The people who take them the most seriously are the people who are the most polite and pleasant and never troll. I can't say I've always been polite and pleasant, and many people who have never even gotten infracted can't say they've never trolled.

    It's not funny, it's not cute, it's a loop-hole in the system probably left over from Typology Central being connected to INTPcentral.

    Half the stuff that goes on here would never go on, on INTJforum, for example.

    If you really loved rules, you'd hang out on INTJforum. They know rules.




    Yes, well thanks for your concern. And your acknowledgement that the forum is indeed set up in a way so that emotional people get in trouble more easily, even if there are other people around them with even more insidious or amoral agendas.




    I'm not fighting with you, I was trying to get you to see the reality of nuclear war. You're the one who told me to get some Ne, and to tone down the Fi, so you kind of started it.

    You've got to step aside and just take it easy, they're just baiting you now.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  7. #247
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    It does if attached to Te.

    But it's interesting how the if-then comes to be. Or more exactly, how the person sees there is a movement from the if condition to the then result. How does one get to imagine that one set of images plus an if condition gives rise to some other set of images? A shitload of coherence testing that looks a hell of a lot like "WHAT IF".

    Actual conscious operation of Ni has a lot more heuristic devices than what if.
    What you are calling coherence testing seems to happen automatically, without conscious operation. I generally become aware first of the result. If I want more insight into the process, I have to look deliberately, and what I find is usually a tangled mess, until the end where it is untangled and coherent.

    It is worth pointing out, too, that Ni cannot detach from Te/Fe in actual usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Yes, it's called personal preference. It's called Fi. Why don't you tell Kalach that instead, since you agree with me and apparently don't realize it?
    Our agreement on this does not mean we see things (or even this thing) the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    The thing is, Ni can presume to think it sees ALL paths ...
    This sounds more like Ne. Ni sees one path, and views it as the correct one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Or simply what so many other people have suggested, that some of us equate the word "exciting" with something fun or positive, so thinking nuclear war gives someone a hard on is a bit unsettling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    And that's cool. Maybe if someone had said "unboring" twenty pages ago, I would have gotten it a lot sooner.
    So our answer to the OP is ultimately based on our definition of excitement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I'm not fighting with you, I was trying to get you to see the reality of nuclear war. You're the one who told me to get some Ne, and to tone down the Fi, so you kind of started it.
    This thread has never been about the reality of nuclear war, just the fantasy of it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    YES...and that's why I keep saying it's Fi, and ENFPs like @skylights said she doesn't really feel excited about things she finds unpleasant to think about...Fi tends to feel very strongly about things.

    So a lot of people have said "don't feel strongly ethically about this" but if you're an Fi type, and take nuclear war seriously (ofc some people don't) then you're going to have a hard time putting it into perspective unless you calm down and use other functions.

    Fi types tend to lose it about different things, though; though you'll see some similarities of them largely not caring for human suffering or ugliness, they all have different ideas of precisely what that means, and which field they'll "specialize."

    Yes, that's apt, just like INTPs, Ti types, might academically specialize in a certain subject, I think Fi types "specialize" in a certain area, so to speak, they have stronger ethics about certain topics than others, and then on the rest they can be more like live and let live.
    I think the biggest thing I don't understand about the Fi thing is this: If you say you don't like something, and another person says they do, and both people are speaking honestly and it's just as important to both of them, then how can you still believe so strongly in your own personal Fi judgement when it's effectively been canceled out by another person's emotional opinion? Are yours more true than anyone else's? Sorry, the thought's just been bugging me a little because I can't figure it out lol!

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by En Gallop View Post
    I think the biggest thing I don't understand about the Fi thing is this: If you say you don't like something, and another person says they do, and both people are speaking honestly and it's just as important to both of them, then how can you still believe so strongly in your own personal Fi judgement when it's effectively been canceled out by another person's emotional opinion? Are yours more true than anyone else's? Sorry, the thought's just been bugging me a little because I can't figure it out lol!
    i think i can answer that (grew up with Fi users)...
    in a sentiment that would seem so obvious to them that i can trust neither you or i or quite possibly any NT will ever be able to fully grok.


  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    So, why are you falling for the oldest trick in the book? If you understand not only his overarching objective, but also the specific tactics he will employ to achieve it, why would you allow him to force you exactly into the position where he wants you to be?

    If you have already recognized Rasofy as your adversary, do you not have a modicum of strategic incentive to stop him from reaching his objective?
    But would going around expressing oneself with care and strategy to counteract each person's tricks while your trolls get away with being their troll selves be empowering from every functional point of view?
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