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View Poll Results: In a certain light, wouldn't nuclear war be exciting?

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  • Yes

    21 52.50%
  • No

    19 47.50%
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  1. #91
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I guess maybe a puerile Revolution-style reboot of the world, where society is rebooted without all the pain and suffering and harm and grit and dirt would be more palatable for people.... You know, the PG-11 version...
    Sort of like that original Star Trek episode where instead of actually fighting a war, each side sends a specified number of citizens to a quick, painless death based on simulations run by computers.

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Yes, absolutely, 100% yes. It would be exciting to see how it actually played out, and how accurate our predictions of it were. I think there is an excitement about seeing any hypothetical on that big a scale played out. That's why people like zombies and disaster movies. It doesn't have anything to do with actually wishing that thing would happen. I would venture to guess that exactly zero percent of people responding "yes" actually want a nuclear war to happen.
    Essentially my sentiments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its a little like saying that you'd be excited at the prospect of someone raping you or cutting your throat. The difference is that war, and particularly nuclear war, is considered totally and utterly in the abstract and depersonalised.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    While this attitude (making the best of a bad situation) is helpful in most areas of life, I don't think being brutal violent attacks are in the same category.
    The attitude of making the best of a bad situation is helpful and appropriate in ANY situation. What, after all, is the alternative? Making the bad situation even worse? "Making the best of it" need not imply agreement or acquiescence, and certainly not enjoyment. It does mean accepting the reality of the situation - yes, this is happening. From there, you do your best to survive, help others, fight back/escape, and learn what you can, if only to prevent it happening again.

    The word "excitement" seems to be responsible for much of the disagreement. Many people associate it with only positive experiences, implying a desire to have those experiences. It is also often associated with experiences like reckless joyriding, drug use, and the commission of crimes from vandalism to rape, activities usually considered negative. What they share in common is the adrenaline rush, the heightened senses, the focus and sense of urgency or immediacy, often in the presence of something momentously different and unexpected. In this spirit, and under illumination of my choosing, I can only agree with the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Who doesn't know that Nagasaki or Hiroshima were an attack against a race/nation of people?
    They were not. The decision to use (previously untried) nuclear weapons was based on a determination that this would bring the war to a much quicker end, and actually result in less overall loss of life. Concern about the Soviet Union likely reinforced that decision. The identity/nature of the enemy was incidental.

    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    The first bomb was justified, then? So it can be logically extended the necessity of the second bomb is a matter of opinion? Bare in mind it resulted in an objective conclusion of the Pacific front with the added benefit of minimizing American (and Japanese, perhaps) causalities.
    As I agreed above, yes. Moreover, had the U.S. not used nuclear weapons, the world would not have the firsthand knowledge of their horrific effects, knowledge that may have contributed to the fact that they have not been used since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post
    Yes, we can interpret anything any way we want to. However, having the ability to do something--even inside our minds--doesn't give us a free moral pass to do it without discrimination. There's a time and a place for play.
    We don't need a "moral pass" to think about things, just to translate those thoughts into actions. Oftentimes it is the process of thinking them through, of conducting those thought experiments, that shows us what a bad idea something would be in reality.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #92
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    What about nuclear war, but without all of the casualties and infrastructure damage involved? We'd at least get some good physics phenomena and cool lighting effects out of it.

  3. #93
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Sort of like that original Star Trek episode where instead of actually fighting a war, each side sends a specified number of citizens to a quick, painless death based on simulations run by computers.
    I love that episode. I felt so morally superior while watching it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #94
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    It's interesting how one can view the same truth from different subjective backdrops based on emotion and instinct. Focus on the pretty colors of a mushroom cloud and momentarily be humbled in awe and excitement, even if your impression gives way to an overwhelmingly negative response. Focus on the notion of impending change sweeping across all that you've ever been dissatisfied by, even if you sink back into a state of apathy and hopelessness.

  5. #95
    Ginkgo
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    ps - YOLO

  6. #96
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    The Drums of War

    We may find out for the drums of war are beating. Why, we have just sent a high tech air warfare frigate to join the American fleet in Japan. Whoever thought we would be fighting out of Japan?

    China is drumming up war with Japan in the South China Sea. And China's proxy, North Korea, is drumming up war with South Korea. And China is drumming up war with India over their unresolved border. War is being fought in Syria, Iraq and Afganistan and Pakistan. And the ideology of jihad fills the internet. And Cyber war is being fought by China, America and others.

    Even in Oz, young people are wrapping themselves in the flag and becoming nationalistic.

    Can you hear the drumming in the distance? Can you hear it coming closer? Can you feel the tempo? Can feel the tempo getting faster? Can you hear it getting louder? Can you hear our hearts marching to the tempo of the drum?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Wow. So, as a hypothesis, those who are able to handle abstract images and assess them in terms of aspects, can go ahead and say nuclear war (as a large and devastating process) would contain elements that can be exciting; and those who would really like to stabilise concrete images, can't? (I didn't look through the thread to see how closely the yeas and nays match up with supposed type because hey, you people write some sick and weird CONSERVATIVE shizzle.)

    That's astoundingly interesting. The Si people want to collect the entire nuclear war image and and assess it as one fairly concrete item that includes death and face melting and etc but with all the attendant pain and suffering included as relevant and overwhelming of other kinds of imagistic connection.

    I totally am making this up.
    I think it really all depends on how realistic your concept of nuclear war is, honestly. A lot of younger people have never even thought about it realistically, think about things like war games or sci-fi movies or something, or see it (incorrectly, imo) as an answer to wiping out wide-scale problems in one fell swoop.

    The reality of nuclear war is that not everyone is going to die, there's going to be a lot of suffering, many people will die slowly instead of quickly, or survive and have deformed children; the environment would be wrecked.

    Honestly I have a hard time agreeing that any mature Ni dom wouldn't have enough long term thinking skills to say ..."ah but no" even if their initial answer was that they could see how someone else could think it.

    So this isn't Si/Ni, you are completely making it up.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I do not believe that you can be thinking that out.

    Its a little like saying that you'd be excited at the prospect of someone raping you or cutting your throat. The difference is that war, and particularly nuclear war, is considered totally and utterly in the abstract and depersonalised.
    This was kind of the idea I had when I was saying how boring is your life...some people have had really cushy existences, I guess, maybe they are so bored or dissatisfied with life that even something horrifying in the abstract sounds like a welcome change.

    Because I've almost always purposefully avoided real-life boredom (avoiding corporate or desk jobs, moving to different cities) as well as having my fair-share (or more) of trauma, I don't really relate to this deep seated need for negative excitement or a huge unstoppable change that comes from outside (nuclear bomb, tornado, tsunami).

    I think as Fi dom with tertiary Ni, I use Ni later, and now that I'm ethically and emotionally reassured that I'm not talking to a group of soulless sociopaths, I'm coming back to the idea more and more of "sheltered" and "bored" and "unrealistic."

    Which doesn't make them unethical people, just really not thinking things through. Which is still dangerous, but people like that (that overcome by being bored or sheltered) are also highly unlikely to do anything to CAUSE nuclear wars, so they probably aren't dangerous still.

    It's like being a teenager and thinking it would be fun to live on the street or rob a bank or something.

    I do think your rape and throat-slitting scenarios are apt.

    If you're that curious about how life plays out, maybe you should get out of the house more. Not you, Lark, the collective you.

  9. #99
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I think it really all depends on how realistic your concept of nuclear war is, honestly. A lot of younger people have never even thought about it realistically, think about things like war games or sci-fi movies or something, or see it (incorrectly, imo) as an answer to wiping out wide-scale problems in one fell swoop.

    The reality of nuclear war is that not everyone is going to die, there's going to be a lot of suffering, many people will die slowly instead of quickly, or survive and have deformed children; the environment would be wrecked.

    Honestly I have a hard time agreeing that any mature Ni dom wouldn't have enough long term thinking skills to say ..."ah but no" even if their initial answer was that they could see how someone else could think it.

    So this isn't Si/Ni, you are completely making it up.
    It is damn too. All those in favor of nuclear excitement are recognising that aspects of the collapse can be exciting, while the anti-nuclear wowsers are requiring us all to get buried under the entirety of this one, unitary, monolithic, and realistically conceived-in-detail death's head mushroom cloud. It's insanely conservative picture-making, no other imagery allowed.

    Which is entirely bizarre because just how many books and movies are now out of bounds? For that matter, and a whole lot more seriously on a pseudo-psychology forum, though apparently no one has seen fit to recognise this, but what are you people saying to actual troops who come back from actual battle in actual concrete circumstance of death and murder, and they say, THAT WAS EXCITING!?

    If there is even one person who nearly got blown up in Boston saying they were thrilled and excited by the sound and violence that didn't kill them.... THEY MUST BE SICK IN THE HEAD RIGHT?

    I am surprise.


    Besides, if it had been...

    This Side of The Blast Radius (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1920)
    The Beautiful and Bombed (New York: Scribners, 1922)
    The Great Fat Boy (New York: Scribners, 1925)
    Tender Is the Nuke (New York: Scribners, 1934)
    and
    The Love of the Last Tycoon (Because All The Others are Radioactive) –


    THEN YOU'D BE PRO_BOMB 2
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  10. #100
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It's like being a teenager and thinking it would be fun to live on the street or rob a bank or something.
    You don't have to be a teenager to find it interesting to play around with "what-if" scenarios: how would I survive on the street? If I were going to rob a bank, how would I do it? It is far better to play out these scenarios in one's imagination than in reality. (Aren't many video games based on the premise of giving the players thrills they cannot experience IRL?) My SO actually does this quite a bit: what if our house were destroyed in a natural disaster? what if we were kidnapped on overseas travel? What if someone took out the regional power/comm grid? Also far less realistic situations. That doesn't mean he wants any of these to happen. I think he just enjoys the mental exercise of thinking them through. I do sometimes as well, though more from the practical benefit of contingency planning.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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