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  1. #11
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    In a horse race, I always back the horse called, "Self-interest" -

    Because I know he is trying to win.
    You'd have a hard time explaining my ISFJ mother then. She just got down to below 75 lbs. in weight while taking care of my grandmother. When her sisters got together and decided to put Grandma in a nursing home, my mother resisted at first. She tried to say she wanted to have Grandma stay with her a few more months. She believes there are two ways to live, like Christ or selfishly. She strives to live like Christ. When I ask her what of the people who selfishly take from her while she gives, she will not judge them by the same standard she judges herself. Not that my grandma is a selfish taker. She just has very high needs in her old age.

  2. #12
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    My thoughts on kindness may not be those you'd expect from an INFP. I've suffered and seen others suffer up close and personally from misplaced kindness to people who did not deserve it. I see misplaced kindness to the undeserving as a form of cruelty to the deserving. By undeserving what I chiefly have in mind is people who are cruel to others in some way. I think they should be punished, not rewarded.

    To state a general principle, I think cooperation would flourish more, without being taken advantage of so much, if cooperators would get reciprocation from other cooperators but non-cooperators would be held accountable.

    By cooperators I mean people who are not putting themselves - as a part of the whole - ahead of the whole, whatever the whole is. (Provided it is a worthy whole.) I also mean people who are reciprocators of kindness. I mean people who play fair.

    In short I believe that on net balance, there would be more kindness and less cruelty if the unkind and the unfair were held more accountable in some way, in whatever group they are a part of.

  3. #13
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    I think being kind is definitely ... really hard, when it comes down to serious situations. I mean, superficial polite kindness, is pretty achievable, but kindness in the sense of truly being accepting and compassionate to all people, is like aiming to be Jesus. The advice sounds pretty good though. Accepting pain, difficulty, and even all your faults in your life no doubt makes it easier to accept other people's similar pains and difficulties. I think by being able to accept yourself, it's easier to understand others. Like, it's more important to work to change yourself before you work to change others. I think genuine kindness is definitely a lot harder to do, until one has this kind of realisation and experience, but definitely something I would work to achieve. It is all beneficial, and I don't mean from the superficial kindness.

    I can't name the kindest person I've ever met. Sometimes it's hard to tell. But there are definitely kind people out there, and thank goodness.

    About expanding kindness, well I just assume it'd work best like a sort of contagion. Be kind to people and perhaps they will be kind to others. People are pretty easily influenced I think, and an act of kindness will have the ability to uplift a person and make them more prone to perform an act of kindness too...... I think.

  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default "Self-Interest", to place

    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelTao View Post
    You'd have a hard time explaining my ISFJ mother then. She just got down to below 75 lbs. in weight while taking care of my grandmother. When her sisters got together and decided to put Grandma in a nursing home, my mother resisted at first. She tried to say she wanted to have Grandma stay with her a few more months. She believes there are two ways to live, like Christ or selfishly. She strives to live like Christ. When I ask her what of the people who selfishly take from her while she gives, she will not judge them by the same standard she judges herself. Not that my grandma is a selfish taker. She just has very high needs in her old age.
    You have a wonderful mother and your mother thinks you are wonderful too. Even my mother thinks I am wonderful too.

    But how interesting - we have laws against nepotism here. This is because we know that mother-love is not disinterested.

    And if mother-love is not disinterested surely it is interested, perhaps self-interested.

    But OK, I take your point - next time I am betting on a horse race, I will bet on, "Mother-Love", to win and, "Self-Interest", to place.

  5. #15
    Senior Member vince's Avatar
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    A big challenge I face with being kind is that a lot of new folks I meet, get very suspicious of me and perhaps think I'm phony. It's not always received very well. A person's background determines a lot of how they deal with kindness (both giving and receiving).

  6. #16
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I've been curious about this for a while, as I've started to absorb the relationship between kindness to others, kindness for one's self, well-being, and calmness. I recently bought a book by Pema Chondron called Start Where You Are. The premise is that by accepting the pain and difficulty in your own life without pushing it away, and by sharing the things you already have (as opposed to pushing away your pain and clinging to your happiness) you can increase kindness and compassion. I think she's onto something.

    What are your thoughts on kindness? on Pema's advice? Challenges associated with being kind? Benefits? Stories? Whatever?

    One of the pitfalls I see is in being a fake and exhausting yourself. The balance between honesty, genuineness, and kindness has always interested me. I suppose it points to the fact that even in one's quest to be more kind, people have to be patient and kind to themselves.
    I think of things like knowing when to be kind and blunt as tools for production.

    For instance, if I deem my own intervention to be necessary or desireable, I'll decide, okay, do I need to be kind and understanding, or blunt?

    If two of my friends are mad at eachother and tempers are flaring, and physical confrontation seems likely, I'll say something like, "you two are being fucking idiots. If you'd chill out we'd be able to solve this problem. So, as soon as you're ready to get over your own egos, I'll be waiting."

    Or if someone I know is being hurtful because they're frustrated and feel powerless or seem in distress, I'll say something like, "I know that it can be extremely frustrating, and it can seem like it's not worth it, but going about this the way you are is doing you more harm than good."

    Same sentiment. Different tones cause different outcomes.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  7. #17
    Senior Member SquirrelTao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    A big challenge I face with being kind is that a lot of new folks I meet, get very suspicious of me and perhaps think I'm phony. It's not always received very well. A person's background determines a lot of how they deal with kindness (both giving and receiving).
    Isn't that sad? Especially when they want their cynical opinions to be confirmed.

    But I guess even I've been guilty of this. I used to think a girl at work was phony because she was always so smiley and almost gushy in a way when greeting me. Then when I learned she was originally from the Phillipines, I realized she was actually being genuine. Women from cultures like that seem to be dripping with so much sweetness and to exude so much warmth. I guess they're capable of being phony, too, but they always seem to turn out to be genuinely nice.

    Then I think of the man in church who was always smiling, every single time we looked at him, and how we despised him as children. We always made fun of him. I wonder why we did that.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    This deviation into kindness is a process from negative and positive polarities in thinking and the interaction and attraction with the people that are drawn together as a consequence of the energy you expedite outwardly from the self. Which depends on confidence, esteem and the ability to accept the flaws and strengths and just be without sinking into a lack of belief in the self.

    Kindness affects us from upbringing and social interaction. Lack of nurturing in a person's life will create a fall out that expands to all areas. Lack of love and human contact on any level will do that too, so will a lifetime of criticism and abuse. All of it will reinforce negative traits that increase the propensity to stop being kind, to be guarded and cynical of peoples intentions.

  9. #19
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    looks like the INFPs took over this post lol


  10. #20
    Wonderer Samuel De Mazarin's Avatar
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    How does one expand kindness?

    By thinking and feeling seriously about how little kindness there is in the world... learning about the misery that abounds... talking with people about how they feel and what their dreams are... sooner or later, if the thought of "how much better the world would be with more kindness" doesn't impel you to be more kind and spread joy in the world... you're a lost cause.

    As for the discussion being held by SquirrelTao and co... well, there may be a way of 'rationally' disbursing kindness... but then it starts looking more like politics. Where and how does one draw the line? Is there a line? Should there be?
    Madman's azure lie: a zen miasma ruled.

    Realize us, Madman!

    I razed a slum, Amen.

    ...............................................

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