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Thread: original sin

  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    I think we should sin as much as possible because then we can defy God and the natural order!
    Spoken like a true Lord of the Sith.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    And of course if you believe the Eden story was more an analogy or attempt to explain why certain things were the way they are, in order to codify the identity of the tribe, then you would look at it even more differently and not really need to smooth out the inconsistencies/ambiguities in the perspectives.
    Please elaborate on this concept. I have my own pagan interpretation, but I don't really know any others, other than what I hear the fundamentalists say.


    So is it that Catholics and Protestants think of it differently, the sexuality thing is not really literal, or they try to put it all together in a kind of abstract way? Interesting it being sexually transmitted. I hadn't thought of that. So how is it that Catholic priests and popes and whatever decreed things which appeared to be inconsistent with the Bible- which had more weight? Do modern people give one more weight than the other? Is it just a matter of interpretation?

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    I agree with @fidelia that the "original sin" is basically seeing themselves as separate from God, and as powerful as God. I've even seen Catholics say that Pride (not Lust) is actually the blackest sin, and that Pride is what makes people think they are little gods, that they can live without god, that they can out-do god, we live very much in an age of sin from this perspective, and what amuses me is that with food, for example, it's actually still the natural occurring foods that are best for us, and processed foods are proven more and more every day to cause disease.

    However, I was also raised Protestant, and even when belonging to a Christian church as an adult, I was a member of a Lutheran church. I really admire Catholics, I love how educated they are, and that they practice what they preach about charity, but when it comes to their guilt about sex, their interpretation of original sin, and how they deny divorced people communion, I just can't hang.

    I really think the Catholics go out on a limb sometimes, I really do, they've created their own mythology; but then again so have Mormons.

    Though @Pseudo says their assertions are supported by the Bible, I really don't see where the Bible says that sex is a sin; it says that lusting after another man's wife and basically having casual sex are sins.

    The Song of Solomon portrays sexual love between a husband and wife as a beautiful thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Please elaborate on this concept. I have my own pagan interpretation, but I don't really know any others, other than what I hear the fundamentalists say.


    So is it that Catholics and Protestants think of it differently, the sexuality thing is not really literal, or they try to put it all together in a kind of abstract way? Interesting it being sexually transmitted. I hadn't thought of that. So how is it that Catholic priests and popes and whatever decreed things which appeared to be inconsistent with the Bible- which had more weight? Do modern people give one more weight than the other? Is it just a matter of interpretation?
    The way I see it, and this is my own interpretation, is that sex is our ultimate "god power" in that we create new people, and that may be how the sin is sexual or "sexually transmitted" to put it in a humorous way. We literally have the ability to create other humans, and animals can create other animals, but they are innocent of their ability; only humans are deeply conscious of what they are doing, which is what complicates our relationship to sex.

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    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    ARENT ARENT. EFFFFING AUTOCORRECT!!!! @Marmotini


    My understanding is the same as yours and @fidelia. Human were tempted by the idea that they could be all powerfull and not need god.

    I listened to a very interesting sermons last week (at a non-denominational) about how self-righteousness is sort of the root sin or the "only true sin" because all other sins branch of from it. Adultery, murder, pride ect. all stem from this idea that God's rules don't apply to us or this situation. That We know better and we don't need God.

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    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    [...]The Song of Solomon portrays sexual love between a husband and wife as a beautiful thing.
    What makes you think they are married? While it's certainly arguable, I don't think there's any direct evidence of it in the text. Plus, if it WAS written Solomon (also less than clear), he wasn't exactly a one man, one woman kinda guy (700 wives, 300 concubines).

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I thought the original sin was eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or power, or something like that. But a Catholic priest at a talk the other night said the original sin was being conceived by a non-virgin birth, i.e. being produced because your parents had sex. So sex is the original sin. But Eve was created so Adam wouldn't be lonely, and sex is supposed to produce (according to religion, including what the Catholic priest said) a spiritual union of souls. So sex makes you less lonely. So Eve could have been created to have sex with Adam and produce loving harmonious happiness and all that. But sex is a sin. Huh? Can we extrapolate/deduce by combining the two that if knowledge of good and evil and all other god-like powers and sex are both the original sin, then they might be the same thing, and sex will lead to god-like knowledge of good and evil, and everything else? Can we know the mysteries of the universe through sex, and that's what monotheism thinks is a sin, because then we would be like God and have no need for monotheistic religion anymore?

    This catholic priest doesn't know what he's talking about. I no longer identify as a Christian because my lifestyle does not align with biblical teachings, but I did go to a Bible college at one point and wrote a paper along this subject. If there is an omniscient God and the Bible is his inspired word and everything written in it is accurate, it seems to me that sex was created as an earthly representation of the spiritual euphoria that awaits "believers" in eternal paradise. The Garden of Eden was a carnal manifestation of heaven. When Adam was placed into a deep sleep (crucifixion) and God removed a rib from his side and created his wife (the centurion pierced Jesus' side after he died and blood and water poured out which gave salvation or "birth" to the church) they were married and united in "one flesh" which denotes sexual union. Consider these verses.

    Genesis 2:21-25 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

    And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

    And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
    1 Corinthians 6:16

    What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
    Ephesians 5:28-32

    So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

    For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

    For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    This is a great mystery : but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
    2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
    Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

  8. #18
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moniker View Post
    This catholic priest doesn't know what he's talking about. I no longer identify as a Christian because my lifestyle does not align with biblical teachings, but I did go to a Bible college at one point and wrote a paper along this subject. If there is an omniscient god and the Bible is his inspired word and everything written in it is accurate, it seems to me that sex was created as an earthly representation of the spiritual euphoria that awaits "believers" in eternal paradise. The Garden of Eden was a carnal representation of heaven. When Adam was placed into a deep sleep (crucifixion) and God removed a rib from his side and created his wife (the centurion pierced Jesus' side and blood and water poured out which gave salvation or "birth" to the church) they were united in "one flesh" which denotes sexual union. Consider these verses.
    That's really interesting. Kind of sounds like my pagan interpretation.

  9. #19
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    The more consistent and liberal Christianity gets, the more it looks like paganism. Probably because that's how it started. In my humble opinion. I think Jesus was a Hindu, and when it became a religion, and the religion became institutionalized and people capitalized on the teachings for power, then they took all the good pagan stuff out.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    ARENT ARENT. EFFFFING AUTOCORRECT!!!! @Marmotini


    My understanding is the same as yours and @fidelia. Human were tempted by the idea that they could be all powerfull and not need god.

    I listened to a very interesting sermons last week (at a non-denominational) about how self-righteousness is sort of the root sin or the "only true sin" because all other sins branch of from it. Adultery, murder, pride ect. all stem from this idea that God's rules don't apply to us or this situation. That We know better and we don't need God.
    Ha ha oops. Sorry.

    Yes, effing autocorrect.


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