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Thread: For or against?

  1. #11
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    Depends on whether some situation at hand goes for or against my values

    It usually winds up as "for," or advocation. Sometimes, though, something just "isn't right" and so I wind up in "against" mode.


    Mayhaps this is a D&D alignment thing? I'm Neutral-Good; the Neutral might have something to do with it.

  2. #12
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    Once we are for something, we find there are those who are against it.

    And this is a test of character, for a mensch is known by their enemies.

    And knowing we have enemies is also test of character, and is a test of our prudence, for if we go charging ahead, our enemies will undo us. No, as the Bible tells us we must be, "as gentle as a dove and as shrewd as a snake". And rat cunning is not out of the question.

  3. #13
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    I dont like it when people are against things without offering alternatives, come to think of it.
    It seems very distasteful on some level.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Once we are for something, we find there are those who are against it.

    And this is a test of character, for a mensch is known by their enemies.

    And knowing we have enemies is also test of character, and is a test of our prudence, for if we go charging ahead, our enemies will undo us. No, as the Bible tells us we must be, "as gentle as a dove and as shrewd as a snake". And rat cunning is not out of the question.
    Tread softly and carry a big stick.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    I dont like it when people are against things without offering alternatives, come to think of it.
    It seems very distasteful on some level.
    My father would tell me there was no point in criticising something if we didn't offer a better alternative. But he was naive and wrong.

    He was naive and wrong because critical thinking is worthwhile for its own sake.

    And of course by critical thinking we mean the criticism of ideas and not the criticism of persons.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    My father would tell me there was no point in criticising something if we didn't offer a better alternative. But he was naive and wrong.

    He was naive and wrong because critical thinking is worthwhile for its own sake.

    And of course by critical thinking we mean the criticism of ideas and not the criticism of persons.
    Your father was right. Ideas and people are connected, so you know the collateral damage is a criticism of a person. No one likes a critical spirit.
    "..And the eight and final rule: If this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight."
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winds of Thor View Post
    Your father was right. Ideas and people are connected, so you know the collateral damage is a criticism of a person. No one likes a critical spirit.
    I don't know about there but here we have the separation of church and state. And this prepares us for the separation of the idea and the person.

    There are those who have not experienced the separation of church and state or the separation of the idea and the person. So when the church or mosque is critiqued, naturally they think the state or the person is also being critiqued.

    Also critical thinking needs to be learnt, and so it is an acquired taste.

    And naturally those who have not learnt to think critically don't like a critical spirit; but those who practise critical thinking like a critical spirit quite a lot.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    I dont like it when people are against things without offering alternatives, come to think of it.
    It seems very distasteful on some level.
    Spoken like a Jungian irrational.
    That would be my answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I don't know about there but here we have the separation of church and state. And this prepares us for the separation of the idea and the person.

    There are those who have not experienced the separation of church and state or the separation of the idea and the person. So when the church or mosque is critiqued, naturally they think the state or the person is also being critiqued.

    Also critical thinking needs to be learnt, and so it is an acquired taste.

    And naturally those who have not learnt to think critically don't like a critical spirit; but those who practise critical thinking like a critical spirit quite a lot.
    We all have ideas about who and what we are and why and how we differ and are the same. And it isn't a religious designation. It's an existential problem that we all have to deal with in order to comprehend ourselves. Your stance is purely dehumanizing; and religion is not to blame here for your philosophical ignorance.

  9. #19
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I preface an answer with the fact that I think it's problematic to chop one's ideas down this dichotomy. Still, I will at least make a rough estimate, if not one that I'd want to be held up in any remotely important matter.

    I used to lean much more toward thinking about what I was against. Eventually it became too frustrating to keep dismissing ideas without having anything to replace them. I no longer felt that I had any difficulty identifying problems, but it seemed pointless if I could not conceive of solutions. So, I tried to move much more toward identifying what I am for, and I've felt much more satisfied with my ideas ever since.

    It's advice I'd give to anyone with similar positions as mine, people with certain ideas generally considered left wing but more specifically like social democracy, market socialism, restricting the profit motive, or fighting for financial equality. I think we spend too much time telling everyone what we think is wrong with corporatism, laissez-fair economics and the like. We should tell people about these things, but it's pointless if we cannot also provide an alternative and explain why we are for it.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    We all have ideas about who and what we are and why and how we differ and are the same.
    And these ideas are simply wrong. If you want to find out why they are wrong, pick up a book on psychometrics.

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