Life Affirming?

[Lark]

What does it mean? What qualifies and what does not?

 

[Mole]

Bread and Roses

What does it mean? What qualifies and what does not?

The abolition of institutional slavery for the first time in history by the House of Commons in 1833 is life affirming.

And sending the Royal Navy into the Atlantic with orders to sink all American slave ships was life affirming.

And emancipation of women for the first time in history in Australia and New Zealand in 1901, was life affirming.

And the Judicial Enquiry into Child Abuse in Ireland in 2009, and the Royal Commission into Child Abuse in Australia in 2013 are life affirming.

But not only do we want to free the slaves, women and children, we want roses as well. We also want to dance, make love and poetry.

 

[Society]

They way i noticed affirmation used usually refers to agreeing, complimenting and pointing out the value in ones choices and beliefs.

Not sure about the context here.

 

[Lark]

The abolition of institutional slavery for the first time in history by the House of Commons in 1833 is life affirming.

And sending the Royal Navy into the Atlantic with orders to sink all American slave ships was life affirming.

And emancipation of women for the first time in history in Australia and New Zealand in 1901, was life affirming.

And the Judicial Enquiry into Child Abuse in Ireland in 2009, and the Royal Commission into Child Abuse in Australia in 2013 are life affirming.

But not only do we want to free the slaves, women and children, we want roses as well. We also want to dance, make love and poetry.

Victor you are living evidence of Dawkin's "mind virus" or "meme" theory.

Or perhaps you believe it and want to personify it with singularity of purpose.

 

[Lark]

They way i noticed affirmation used usually refers to agreeing, complimenting and pointing out the value in ones choices and beliefs.

Not sure about the context here.

I agree and hence the thread.

 

[Ivy]

The abolition of institutional slavery for the first time in history by the House of Commons in 1833 is life affirming.

And sending the Royal Navy into the Atlantic with orders to sink all American slave ships was life affirming.

It's not that I don't agree with you, I do- abolition was life-affirming. I'm having trouble with this second line, though. Sinking the slave ships was life-affirming? Didn't it.. you know, kill a bunch of people, including slaves? Maybe death would be more life-affirming than living in slavery, but wouldn't it be more life-affirming to allow the individuals to make that choice for themselves? Maybe some of those people could have lived to escape or be emancipated after the Civil War.

 

[Lark]

It's not that I don't agree with you, I do- abolition was life-affirming. I'm having trouble with this second line, though. Sinking the slave ships was life-affirming? Didn't it.. you know, kill a bunch of people, including slaves? Maybe death would be more life-affirming than living in slavery, but wouldn't it be more life-affirming to allow the individuals to make that choice for themselves? Maybe some of those people could have lived to escape or be emancipated after the Civil War.

I've got problems with that sort of logic too, its the kind of war without limits rationalisation which resulted in the My Li massacre in Vietnam and the "burning of villages in order to save them".

Its the use in that manner that leads to the term becoming just another vagary like "pro-active" or "gentleman" or in some other contexts, at other times the word "christian" used to mean "kind", "courteous", "thoughtful" or equally prejorative opposites.

 

[Society]

I agree and hence the thread.

Which is making the anwers to thread so far a lot more confusing. Is life affirming anything the user views as positive to life?

 

[Ivy]

Which is making the anwers to thread so far a lot more confusing. Is life affirming anything the user views as positive to life?

I think it's an inherently subjective term. So, yeah, probably.

 

[Lark]

Which is making the anwers to thread so far a lot more confusing. Is life affirming anything the user views as positive to life?

A good question, it would seem so from the responses. What one poster would suggest is anathema another would consider essential, the definition of what is considered is all important, it does read like one man's meat is another man's poison in this instance.

 

[Lark]

I think it's an inherently subjective term. So, yeah, probably.

I think there's an element of truth here, there is a great deal of subjectivity, possibly intersubjectivity too, although surely besides subjective interpretation there are also facts? Therefore is there a factually accurate "life affirming" or "life affirmative" besides the subjective "life affirming" or "life affirmative"?

I've wrestled with this one for a while, obviously the pascifist and militarist, for instance, or perhaps a communist and nazi would be a better example, are both life affirming by their own lights, their radically different policy, practical application of their own theories and actions are both aiming at affirming "life as they know it", this links with Victors idea about killing individual slaves because slavery as an institution could be considered a greater problem, although surely there is also an objective reality that should anyone hold any sort of view, communist, nazi, warlike, peaceable, so long as it doesnt result in people losing their lives it is in some respect life affirmative?

 

[Society]

I think it's an inherently subjective term. So, yeah, probably.

I am currently enriching my life by eating a banana. this moment would not be as enjoyable without it. are bananas life affirming?

 

[Ivy]

Sure, bananas are life affirming. Why the hell not?

 

[Ivy]

Alternate answer: Kirk Cameron sure thinks they are.

 

[Mole]

Victor you are living evidence of Dawkin's "mind virus" or "meme" theory.

Or perhaps you believe it and want to personify it with singularity of purpose.

Although you are well read, Lark, I look forward to the day when you critique my ideas rather than my person.

 

[Mole]

It's not that I don't agree with you, I do- abolition was life-affirming. I'm having trouble with this second line, though. Sinking the slave ships was life-affirming? Didn't it.. you know, kill a bunch of people, including slaves? Maybe death would be more life-affirming than living in slavery, but wouldn't it be more life-affirming to allow the individuals to make that choice for themselves? Maybe some of those people could have lived to escape or be emancipated after the Civil War.

The Royal Navy were ordered to sink American slave ships. The Royal Navy was not ordered to sink American slave ships full of slaves. This was feasible as slaves were only shipped one way and came back empty of slaves. But in the event the Americans, under the guns of the Royal Navy, decided that discretion was the better part of valour, and so the Atlantic slave trade was brought to an end.

And understandably, to save face, the Americans tell us that Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery, failing to mention the guns of the Royal Navy.

 

[Typh0n]

I think the term "life affirming" was coined by Nietzsche in his criticism of Xtian values and how they placed value in "another life" than this one. There is some good segments on this in Nietzsche's The Antichrist, where he explains that all values are "placed on their head" when one begins to value "the spiritual", "nirvana", "the next life", "the ideal", "the soul", all, according to Nietzsche, opposed to the palette of sensory experinces (and thus experience, he would say, is the only one worthy of being lived). So "life affirming" originally means pertaining to living one's earthly life to the fullest, as opposed to hoping for reward in and fearing punishment in the next.

 

[Lark]

I think the term "life affirming" was coined by Nietzsche in his criticism of Xtian values and how they placed value in "another life" than this one. There is some good segments on this in Nietzsche's The Antichrist, where he explains that all values are "placed on their head" when one begins to value "the spiritual", "nirvana", "the next life", "the ideal", "the soul", all, according to Nietzsche, opposed to the palette of sensory experinces (and thus experience, he would say, is the only one worthy of being lived). So "life affirming" originally means pertaining to living one's earthly life to the fullest, as opposed to hoping for reward in and fearing punishment in the next.

This is one of the defining points in the discussion that interests me, that's pretty much an athiestic proposition from Nietzsche, although the "life affirming" message has been taken up contra those positions by theists, in particular the RCC, there's even a book attacking the architects of a culture of death which accuses Nietzsche and Rand, who is in many ways Nietzsche lite, of being among the leading lights.

 

[Typh0n]

I hadnt heard of this. Sounds a bit like Pope Benedict XVI condemntation of the "dictatorship of relativism" in our society. Sounds also like another attempt on the part of the church to inverse values as in the case of pagan holidays being turned into church holidays. I hoenstly dont know if the term was inveted by Nietzsche but I cant find sources that date beyond him that use the term "life affirming"(It wouldnt surprise me if he had borrowed it from someone else, as he did alot of his famous terms, however I dont know whether he did). In any case it seems like an attempt by the RCC to inverse "pagan" values and replace them with Xtian ones, as I doubt they were ignorant of Nietzche's use of the term...

 

[roman67]

The abolition of institutional slavery for the first time in history by the House of Commons in 1833 is life affirming.

And sending the Royal Navy into the Atlantic with orders to sink all American slave ships was life affirming.

And emancipation of women for the first time in history in Australia and New Zealand in 1901, was life affirming.

And the Judicial Enquiry into Child Abuse in Ireland in 2009, and the Royal Commission into Child Abuse in Australia in 2013 are life affirming.

But not only do we want to free the slaves, women and children, we want roses as well. We also want to dance, make love and poetry.

It is very historical details you have shown here.