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  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Also, Australia's liberal democracy didn't seem to prevent them from massacaring the Tasmanian Aboriginees.
    When we arrived in Tasmania there were at most 5,000 aboriginees. Geneticists tell us this was too small a genetic population to survive. And to all of them the common cold, influenza, measles, whooping cough and other common infections brought by the settlers were lethal.

    This was before the germ theory of disease was discovered so no one, not us nor the aboriginees, knew what was happening.

    Nonetheless I invite you to visit Tasmania today and talk to Tasmanian Aboriginees about their genocide and they will laugh at you.

  2. #12
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    ^ I dunno, reminds me of the Turks and the way the Armenian genocide didn't happen, apparently.

    They weren't all killed off by disease. I also fail to see how the size of the population is relevant at all.

    Or maybe they aren't genocides if they're done by liberal Western governments? I'd be willing to leave that in the past, except for the fact that it's my observation that people convinced of moral certainty, with no room for doubt, find it very easy to justify things that are immoral.

    You also seem to be suggesting that it can't be a genocide because there are survivors. If you are actually claiming that, than the Holocaust wasn't a genocide either.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    ^ I dunno, reminds me of the Turks and the way the Armenian genocide didn't happen, apparently.

    They also weren't all killed off by disease, which is what you seem to be claiming. I also fail to see how the size of the population is relevant at all.

    Or maybe they aren't genocides if they're done by liberal Western governments? I'd be willing to leave that in the past, except for the fact that it's my observation that people convinced of moral certainty, with no room for doubt, find it very easy to justify things that are immoral.

    You also seem to be suggesting that it can't be a genocide because there are survivors. If you are actually claiming that, than the Holocaust wasn't a genocide either.
    To find out what happened rather than lazily repeating stale propaganda, you might like to read, "Guns, Germs and Steel: the Fates of Human Societies", by Jared Diamond, as well as, "The Fabrication of Aboriginal History", by Keith Windschuttle in 3 volumes.

  4. #14
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Stale propaganda? Stale propaganda from whom?

    Guns, Germs and Steel is on my reading list. I'll have to get back to you when I'm done. In the mean time, I apologize if I offended you by insinuating that Australia is less than perfect.

    I assure you that if flag-waving amnesia was fashionable in the U.S. right now, as it was ten years ago, I would call people on that, as well.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Stale propaganda? Stale propaganda from whom?
    Well, from the doyen of historians, Manning Clark, who was awarded the Order of Lenin for services to the Soviet Union, and who proudly wore his Order of Lenin to cocktail parties at the Russian Embassy across the road from me.

  6. #16
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    As the National Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse approaches the Roman Catholic Church is starting to panic. For two Catholic bishops have started a petition for Catholics to sign, to ask the Pope to deal with systemic child abuse within the Church.

    Of course it is too late. We are dealing with institutional child abuse with a Royal Commission.

    The Church has covered up child abuse for centuries and the only thing to do is to let in the light.

    We should be asking our governments all over the world to have a Judicial Enquiry into institutional child abuse, following in the footsteps of Ireland and Australia.

  7. #17
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Why are people attached to countries?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Why are people attached to countries?
    Citizenship is of a particular country. There is no international citizenship.

    And if we don't have a citizenship of a particular country, we are stateless. And this is not a fate I would wish on anyone.

    And of course countries are sovereign. Only countries can make sovereign decisions, no one else can.

    Good countries protect the vulnerable and the weak. Good countries protect women and children.

    Liberal democracy only flourishes in particular countries.

    And of course our country is our home.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Citizenship is of a particular country. There is no international citizenship.

    And if we don't have a citizenship of a particular country, we are stateless. And this is not a fate I would wish on anyone.

    And of course countries are sovereign. Only countries can make sovereign decisions, no one else can.

    Good countries protect the vulnerable and the weak. Good countries protect women and children.

    Liberal democracy only flourishes in particular countries.

    And of course our country is our home.
    What about the evils of overt national pride to the point of nationalism?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    What about the evils of overt national pride to the point of nationalism?
    Yes, we might say Nationalism had something to do with the last two European wars. But then the European Union had overcome Nationalism and war between European Union members is now unthinkable.

    At the other end of the scale, Nationalism has failed in the Middle East and we now see they are not defining themselves by nation but by religion.

    However we are seeing the rise of Nationalism in Asia with the rise of China.

    Of course we must keep in mind that Nationalism says my country is the best, while patriotism is the love of country.

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