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  1. #21
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roman67 View Post
    These names are mention in the Quran, I think there is Al in every name which mean unlimited (i am not sure).
    It's much more prosaic. "Al" is the definite article (i.e. "the").
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #22
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    The Limitation of Power

    Quote Originally Posted by roman67 View Post
    These names are mention in the Quran, I think there is Al in every name which mean unlimited
    Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so anything unlimited is absolutely corrupt. And as Allah means unlimited, Allah is absolutely corrupt.

    The civilized solution is to limit power. And the sole purpose of liberal democracy is the limitation of power.

    No wonder liberal democracy is forbidden by an unlimited God.

    And those who love an unlimited God, love unlimited power, for we become what we worship.

  3. #23
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so anything unlimited is absolutely corrupt. And as Allah means unlimited, Allah is absolutely corrupt.

    The civilized solution is to limit power. And the sole purpose of liberal democracy is the limitation of power.
    "Allah" means simply "the god/deity". The civilized solution is to get your facts straight before denigrating someone/something based on an error (or wishful thinking).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    "Allah" means simply "the god/deity". The civilized solution is to get your facts straight before denigrating someone/something based on an error (or wishful thinking).
    Don't blame me, blame Roman for he said -

    These names are mention in the Quran, I think there is Al in every name which mean unlimited (i am not sure).

    For happiness is having someone to blame. Some get married to have someone to blame and some have Al lah.

  5. #25
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Don't blame me, blame Roman for he said -

    These names are mention in the Quran, I think there is Al in every name which mean unlimited (i am not sure).

    For happiness is having someone to blame. Some get married to have someone to blame and some have Al lah.
    And maturity involves accepting responsibility for one's actions. Roman responsibly noted that he was not sure of his translation. You chose to turn that into certainty, and pin your biased hyperbole on a single word.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    And maturity involves accepting responsibility for one's actions. Roman responsibly noted that he was not sure of his translation. You chose to turn that into certainty, and pin your biased hyperbole on a single word.
    OK, blame me.

  7. #27
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    For example, I do not belong to ISKCON (in case anyone was curious from my avatar and tag line) but I have noticed that I have a deep, abiding sense of belonging in yoga studios that happen to have a nod toward Bhakti, kirtan, and/or some form of Krishna consciousness. How can this be? I was never in attendance at one of their special feasts or meetings, and my intellectual knowledge of ISKCON mainly is reliant upon memories of jokes my uncle told about handing out flowers at the airport, like it was some silly cult. I still have no plans to "join."

    But I'm fascinated by the fact that I enjoy kirtan so much, and that I just HAPPENED to feel the most comfortable in another city at a Bhakti studio, and it was the third yoga studio in that city I had sampled, while my regular studio for practice has kirtan and other really mild (though not at all exclusive) krishna consciousness elements (no meat allowed in the studio, kirtan meetings once per month, japa beads sold in the front office).
    I would say that feeling comes from yourself. In other words, you did it yourself but it seems like it came from something else. Its like in the movie space jam where Michael Jordan has his guys drink "magic water"(was that what he called it?) and suddenly they started outperforming the Monstars. Then Michael told them that it was just regular water, there was nothing magic about it. Then they started losing again, until Michael intervened. Its the same with the divine, transcendance, enlightenment, nouminous etc. You think you are experiencing the divine because of relgious/spiritual ceremonies the words being said have an effect on your deep Self. And thats wonderful! My only complaint with religion is that they are not as sincere as Michael, because they dont tell you that you are the one doing it(and if they did would we still need them?)


    These studios are where I feel most "at home" and its completely natural. I was reading about George Harrison and his belief in the Hare Krishna mantra, and how no intellectual knowledge is required of it for it to work as an enlightening meditation to connect one with the God consciousness.
    Thats wonderful that you feel at home in these studios. And Harrison may have been right.

    It's like how I've always felt very moved and spiritual inside Catholic cathedrals though I never officially converted to that faith; I was actually last officially a member of a Lutheran church, which is Catholic-like but still protestant, and I was raised in a more conservative evangelical-style (but a very mild, very reserved and understated form of it) protestant environment.

    Do you think its possible we can just be attuned to a certain level of consciousness, even if we don't intellectually prescribe to a certain format of a particular faith?


    The feeling you get inside Cathedrals is called "nouminous". I remember I visisted a superb cathedral in Leuven(Belgian city) from the 13th(?) century and it just blew me away. The gothic archways, which were enormous, and the space they cleared made me feel pure awe. And this awe was real. But I also know that cathedrals were built to remind people who enter of the greatness of their God - hence it seems that we are the ones who have that power in ourselves, its only revealed to us by something outside.

    Btw, all this is just my 2 cents and you are free to disagree/agree but I Just wanted to convey my point which is that, to me, it seems like we are the ones who have the divine inside us, and there are as many paths as there are individuals.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Oh by the way, religion and spirituality was harshly punished in the Soviet Union for about 75 years and it wasn't destroyed. Russia and surrounding countries are full of Orthodox Christian, Muslims, varying forms of Russian paganism, and now even Hare Krishnas.

    So no. Just no.

    No, raising people without any idea of the supernatural or enforcing it doesn't work. It doesn't work any more than forcing someone to be Catholic guarantees that they'll agree to be Catholic for their entire lives, many do not.

    Madeline Muray O'Hare's son become a preacher, and she was the mouthpiece for American Atheists.
    These people were still introduced to religious ideas, though, even as something they should avoid. What if they weren't, at all? Early religions were used to explain natural phenomena -> religion became embedded into society. If we were to raise an independent population with full scientific knowledge and no KNOWLEDGE of any existing religious concepts, what would happen? It's an interesting question.


    And don't tell me we'd all be lying, rape-y murder machines. Society is as effective as an enforcer of ethical conduct as religion.
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I don't think you get what religion is. Most people with their Western pseudo-scientific reasoning (and yes, I think that evangelical atheists ...as opposed to open-minded agnostics...aren't even real scientists, they presume too much based on lack of evidence and have monstrously transformed lack of belief into a belief system, somehow) don't see to understand that the entire point is aligning your consciousness, via faith, to the divine.

    It's a conscious choice, and a state of mind. And it can be proven over and over again what incredible mind-body alignment people can have via prayer and meditation.

    It's like you don't get it, because you're not even looking in the right place, for the right thing. You're looking for evidence of a giant old man in sandals, and not seeing that the Tao or God or All That Is...is everywhere, all around you, in every living thing, permeating existence.

    That's why I don't want to debate it. It's pointless to use the methodology of Western debate and divisiveness to perceive the whole.
    You are as dogmatic in your belief of there being a whole as the people you are insulting are in their belief of a single answer. Just pointing it out.

    I like the idea of there being this all encompassing universal thing, but I just don't feel it. I feel relaxed or sublime or surreal when I do yoga or look at the stars, and I feel calm when I envision my place as a small part of a great system, but I am very conscious that I am me, distinct. In my more arrogant moments, I think that people are so terrified of that feeling of isolation that they invent artificial constructs (either a creator or a universal whole) to feel connected to something larger and more important. Not to mention the fear of mortality.
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    what incredible mind-body alignment people can have via prayer and meditation.
    Yes, meditation is good for many things, and is even good just in itself. Lately I have been discovering that meditation is good for optimism.

    And meditation does come from the religious tradition. However it is not necessary to be part of a religious tradition or to believe in a religious tradition, to practise meditation and reap its benefits.

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