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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I never said it was okay, that's why I put 'only' in quotation marks....during its peak, it was much like the use of odious 'blasphemy' laws in contemporary Pakistan, or lynchings in the era of segregation, spread out over many years....an atrocity, but not on the same level as genocide or slavery. Equating the two results in an unjust distribution of guilt, and perhaps more importantly, obscures the conditions which led to such crimes, and consequently the ways in which societies and institutions need to be reformed to prevent such crimes in the future (and whether they already have-for instance, it would be ludicrous to single out the modern Catholic Church for its past stance against democracy or religious freedom).

    As for pedophilia, its probably no more prevalent than in any other similar institution overall (though the sheer size of the institution makes the aggregate total immense), the crimes to which the Catholic church as a whole (as opposed to individual priests) needs to account for are the widespread cover-ups, and the institutional incentives for the same.

    All I'm doing is noting that people should keep things in perspective and criticize the contemporary Catholic church for its actual crimes, and balance those crimes beside any good it has accomplished, not turn the institution into a whipping boy or scapegoat simply because they are an easy target on the internet.
    Exactly.

    In the UK the celebrity Jimmy Saville abused more people, over a longer span, with far more opportunities for the authorities to apprehend him than any of the RCC clergy in the UK and ROI combined. So I guess that celebrity and secular society actually cause peadophilia or are a greater cause than roman catholicism. I mena just to employ the thinly disguised sectarian logic of the forumers hating on roman catholicism. For the Nth time.

    The reality is that peadophiles exploit any avenues open to them, if at one time and place becoming a priest permits it they'll do that, if at another joining the police, social services, cultivating a public persona or celebrity its what they'll do.

    I'd not be surprised if the present stoking of hatred for the RCC has got its fair share of pedophile support because its the mother of all diversions from their behaviour, so while everyone is busily focused on an institution which is doing its best to rectify its mistakes and attempt to prevent anything of that kind happening again they wont be focused on as yet undetected ways.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    You don't get it.

    I'm the evil one.

    Maybe others too. But definitely me.

    People who say "Turn the other cheek"? Not very evil.

    You blame all the wrong people in your criticism of religion. Your real enemy is humanity. And the human forces that use religion.
    I dont think its either humanity or religion which are wicked, they are just channels for wickedness.

  3. #63
    Sniffles
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    The Black Legend lives on, how nice.

  4. #64
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    There were 'only' tens of thousands (a large majority were indeed women) over the centuries, most of whom probably weren't witches.
    Whatever. Estimates vary, and it's still a lot. Millions have died in total in the name of Catholicism, how about that? I just have emotional attachment to a fraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I'm just pointing out the absurdity in being so passionate against a religion with directives like the one I pointed out above. The people you should worry about are like me. The ones who have trouble "turning the other cheek" and "are living by the sword", and don't want to "serve others" or "love everyone". I want to be that good, but I struggle with it. So do many others. Because we're human. Yet here you are thinking one of the great problems of the world are religions that try improve these strains in humanity.
    Humanity's weaknesses are a problem, but if I solely focus on them I lose sight of the problems in systems, and I prefer to focus on systems because I'm more adept at solving those problems than I am at changing people. Arguably human nature is basically the same everywhere at every time; we just have to figure out how best to mold circumstances so that they channel human nature in positive directions. You can't really change people, you can only change circumstances. So your argument is sort of just rejecting the problem in my opinion. I don't think people who have trouble living up to ethical standards are "the" problem; they are "a" problem which is much more difficult or even impossible to solve; so "the" problem for me is one that I have a hope of solving.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Whatever. Estimates vary, and it's still a lot. Millions have died in total in the name of Catholicism, how about that? I just have emotional attachment to a fraction.
    Oh have they now?

  6. #66
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Oh have they now?
    I'd say so. But I don't feel like trying to prove it. It's not important the exact sum. The important thing is it's an absurdly high number which is too many. Do you deny this fact? Do you think it's just trivial? Or are you just nitpicking?

  7. #67
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    didn't john paul shoot phil mitchell?

  8. #68
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Who knows. Just a very significant tradition I guess.

  9. #69
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Because he's Goddamned Awesome like Flash Gordon or something like that.

    This one is a Jesuit and I agree with him on a lot of things so far, although he did distance himself from the liberation theologians and for most of my life I believed they were a great source of inspiration, with the sharp, sharp decline and disappearence of Marxism though I kind of think those who didnt hitch themselves to that wagon were on a much more perrenial track.
    I wish Flash Gordon was the Pope, that would kick serious amounts of ass

    On a more serious note, this guy seems to be off to a really good start so I'm looking forward to see what else he'll do
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  10. #70
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    pedofile mascot and enabler. religion is anti-spirituality and a congame. the earth would be lighter...

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