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  1. #71
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    I mean doesn't ANYONE think it's interesting that in Sanskrit "maya" means "illusion" and is associated with human suffering; not that we suffer because of reality, but because of the illusions we project on to it with our consciousness..and that the primary illusion is that we are separate from all that is, or the universe, or God....and that the Christian Satan is often referred to as the Master of Illusion or Lord of Illusion or Prince of Lies, and so forth?

    Evil is live spelled backwards.

  2. #72
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    All of them which aren't Abrahamic. There are only 3 Abrahamic religions. In fact, Judaism actually espouses something more like purgatory and less like the Christian idea of hell.

    I actually don't even believe that the Christian heaven and hell were meant to be literal places; like most Eastern thought, I think that "heaven" is just like nirvana or samsara, in that the consciousness continues to exist, but is united to the divine or merged with other living forms. Hell is actually just the way they used to burn bodies to dispose of them instead of burying; I think this is why some Christians refuse to be cremated, which in my opinion is supremely silly, because the warning was not against burning the dead body, but that your consciousness would not be united with God.

    Some religions believe the consciousness can be aligned with God before death, and that suffering, maya, hell all of that is simply the conscious choice to be separate from the divine consciousness.

    To each their own, though. If people believe they are literally going to a physical place where they will eternally feel like they are being burned alive, or will float around on clouds and be bored when they die then...ok.
    Egyptian book of the dead talks about afterlife, so does tibetan book of the dead(but thats essentially same as egyptians), but for them, its more of a reborn or nirvana(which i count same as heaven, but something inbetween of hell and heaven). Im not talking about heaven as described in christianity, islam etc. Finnish folk mythology says that you go in this place under ground when you die(called tuonela http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuonela )(also its funny that the trip to tuonela is described similarily than to those of egyptians, with a small ferry), which was perverted to be hell by idiot christians who came here to teach their beliefs. Australian aboriginals go to dream world when they die, ethernal life in the place where you go when you see dreams when sleeping. At least some mesoamerican religions believed in tree of life and that you could fool the gods of death and continue living after death. etc etc. so its not just abrahamic religions that have this sort of stuff about eternal life after death.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #73
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    As an INTP, I find the idea of a Spinzoan god or primary mover very appealing, so I actually identify with that. I have a hard time grasping the concept of "existence" without something like that. For me, that provides a "reason" for existence. You can start with the Big Bang, and I believe in all of that, but there's a part of me that's unsatisfied, and can't stop asking "But why?"

    I find that most people don't want to go into this detail, so I've just started telling them I'm an atheist.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    You can start with the Big Bang, and I believe in all of that.
    And I want to make you a Big Bang Atheist because the Big Bang never happened.

    There was no explosion. The galaxies are not exploding away from each other. Rather it is time and space that are accelerating and carrying the galaxies along.

  5. #75
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I'm going to compare INTP's and INFP's for a minute.

    In my experience, many INTP's, including Einstein (I've heard he's an ENTP... I don't think it really matters though) have eventually come to the conclusion that there is a god, but not one in the christian biblical sense who takes part in the fates of man.

    I find INFP's to be more often than not spiritual people with a belief in a god as well, be it a manlike god or an energy.

    If left to themselves in meditation for a very long time, do you think an INTP and an INFP would arrive at a similar conclusion of the existence of god? Or do you think both personalities would veer off in completely different directions? In the end, does logic hold any difference over emotion?

    Are the conclusions of modern thinkers with the backing of math and science any less sophisticated than that of nomads?
    I am an ENTP and I once chatted about this subject with an ENFP professor. I noticed that I, tend to look to data and try to understand God from an objective standpoint. I would myself, look at the facts of Christianity per se, see if they made personal sense to me, and then see if the whole situation made sense to me in general. My ENFP professor's method seemed to be way more feeling based: he said that he came to his religious conclusions through sitting down and really thinking for hours about how he felt about it and what he just personally believed in his heart. The Ti method is much more objective and much more based on data and just pure logic, and the Fi way is much more based on feelings and personal beliefs.

  6. #76
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And I want to make you a Big Bang Atheist because the Big Bang never happened.

    There was no explosion. The galaxies are not exploding away from each other. Rather it is time and space that are accelerating and carrying the galaxies along.
    I apologize for using terminology in popular usage, and not explaining the intricacies of physics in something that was only an aside to the broader point I was making.
    Last edited by Julius_Van_Der_Beak; 03-18-2013 at 07:12 PM. Reason: -msg_v2 Just got out of work... calm down!
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  7. #77
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I am an ENTP and I once chatted about this subject with an ENFP professor. I noticed that I, tend to look to data and try to understand God from an objective standpoint. I would myself, look at the facts of Christianity per se, see if they made personal sense to me, and then see if the whole situation made sense to me in general. My ENFP professor's method seemed to be way more feeling based: he said that he came to his religious conclusions through sitting down and really thinking for hours about how he felt about it and what he just personally believed in his heart. The Ti method is much more objective and much more based on data and just pure logic, and the Fi way is much more based on feelings and personal beliefs.
    As I've said elsewhere, type isn't the only factor determining whether someone's an atheist or a Christian, as just one example.

    Type is less relevant for what someone believes. It's more relevant for why they believe what they believe, or how they came to believe it.

    My interest in typology was actually reawakened when I realized that my initial understanding of what it was wrong. Typology is not a collection of stereotypes. You can't just say NT= nerd, NF = hippy, SP = jock/"cool people''. Not that there isn't significant overlap, but it's not the whole picture. Typology seemed more significant when I realized it had more to do with the way people process information.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  8. #78
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    @INTP I was speaking of major world religions, and all the same I believe that these literalist translations are the direct result of Western ideas and modes of thinking, and have nothing to do with the original Eastern concepts, and I do for all intents and purposes that Christianity was actually an Eastern religious idea that was corrupted by literal Greco-Roman thought in the West.

    I think the reason why people say "I dont need to go to hell, hell is here on earth" are closer to the truth than they may realize. However its not that Earth is hell, but that hell is a form of consciousness that is experienced both dead and alive by the choice to be separate from All That Is or God.

    When we believe in the illusion of separation we act in fear instead of faith and then commit acts (in Christianity called "sin") out of this fear, like stealing from fear of lack, or murder out of the illusion that killing another living thing would somehow benefit you or any other living thing.

    Christianity in its purest form is so close to other forms of Eastern thought that now that I see it, it amazes me how badly its been twisted in the West.

    Not that Eastern countries aren't capable of twisting Eastern philosophies as well, its just that Western thought implies it through its very mode of being, the divisive, competitive, either/or structure that makes up Western ideas.

    Its why I consider Objectivism and anarcho-capitalism to not only be lacking in reason in terms of long-term thinking or big picture thinking, but actual moral evil.

    Ayn Rands Objectivism is Satanism in a dress.

    Nietzchien existential philosophy may be more lucid in terms of Western philosophy, but its the absolute height of hysterical, illusory Maya in terms of Eastern thought.

    I dont think its a coincidence that Ayn Rand died unhappy, sick and alone and that Nietzchie went insane.

    The causes of their afflictions were every bit as mental and spiritual as physical.

  9. #79
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    Oh also I don't want anyone to misunderstand that I am calling Western thought "evil" in any way. Western thought serves an obviously good purpose; I just don't feel that its purpose should in any way be mixed up too much with interpretations of spirituality. It seems like it's done more harm than good to Christianity, and I find the "Westernized" form of Yoga i.e. "Power yoga" to not even be real yoga (more akin to militaristic aerobics) and lacking in the complete mind-body benefits of doing a more authentic vinyasa or hatha or kundalini practice.

    I think Nietzsche is a prime example of Western thought too far out of balance with Eastern thought, for example.

    The problem is not the East or the West, but the imbalance...and trying to use a trombone as a shoe horn.

  10. #80
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    That's exactly the same thing, just seen from a different perspective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And I want to make you a Big Bang Atheist because the Big Bang never happened.

    There was no explosion. The galaxies are not exploding away from each other. Rather it is time and space that are accelerating and carrying the galaxies along.

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