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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    It's the same. Insight comes from all directions, and people do all sorts of things while life passes them by.
    I can see going on from there to teaching others how to sit in a diaper staring at a candle flame. That's about it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #42
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Interesting subject and I wonder how much my enneagram plays a role in this. Ultimately, I do not believe there is no god although I'm often stuck left wanting to believe. I'm kind of like Fox Mulder in the sense of "the truth is out there" and we just need to find it BUT rationally I ultimately believe there is no truth. There is no meaning, there is no sense of purpose. Yet I dislike the label "atheist". I don't feel it rings true to me. I rather prefer the label naturalistic pantheist which ironically enough, is quite close to Spinoza's definition of god although I do not believe that the world itself possesses a consciousness. I am however quite fascinated by the idea of tao in Taoism as a metaphysical essence which encompasses all which I feel does describe my spiritiual views to a great degree.

    It's also interesting to point out what Lenore Thomson writes about Fi:


    Quote Originally Posted by Lenore Thomson
    Introverted Feeling (Fi) is the attitude that everything that is manifest (apparent, observable, described) is the expression of a soul or life force, in terms of which everything ultimately makes sense. Everything that happens is the result of a soul expressing its unique nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenore Thomson
    From this attitude, each living thing is completely unique, and has unique needs. Every living thing needs to express itself and grow in its unique way. None of this can be put into categories or measurements, at least not without blotting out that utter uniqueness of each living thing. Because we are all living things, even though each of us is unique we can still connect to the life force as it exists in others.
    Final Fantasy and the concept of Life Stream much?

    Anyway, I think funnily enough, Thomson's description of Fi in a metaphysical sense does line up with how I view the world metaphysically to a large degree. Is there a god though? No, I don't think so. Even my idea of naturalistic pantheism is based on this concept of interconnectedness and it is this interconnectedness I revere, although I think calling it a belief would be a bit too much of a stretch. I'm most likely a closet INFP (I just dislike the label.)

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  3. #43
    Transient Faceless Beauty's Avatar
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    I would have to place myself under the label of agnostic. Also, I think the concept of god or a creator that are seen in some of the world religions are extremely anthropomorphic and are based more on common human characteristics than anything else. I find that some religions try too hard to create a god that is separate and superior to nature, and consequently view man's place in the universe as being somehow separate of nature. If there is a creative force that pushed everything into being, it's more likely to manifest as a force of nature rather than some "spiritual" deity with a human forms, features, and personality traits.

    Otherwise the existence of god is something I can't exactly prove or disprove. So I prefer to just leave it at that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."-Roger Kint, The Usual Suspects
    "You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."- Tyler Durden, Fight Club
    ENTJ, LIE-Ni, 9w8-6w5-3w2

  4. #44
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    When my cat went missing once (actually got into the walls like a rat), I found myself wishing I could pray to Thor or something.
    Desperate moment of weakness.

    Jokes aside.. I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a divine force. That said, I can't believe in what just might be there, and see no utility in pondering about it ad infinitem.
    If there is one, cool.. I guess.
    If not.. well, it really doesn't matter, either.

    Just live. /shrug
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  5. #45
    Junior Member Hetha's Avatar
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    I don't personally believe in any form of a divine being. I haven't met anyone yet either able to prove or disprove the existence of one. I'm just personally not convinced that there is one, or that there has to be something out there or within us. I'm not short-sighted; not sadly limited in my understanding. My understanding is my own.

    That said, I spent more than 30 years questing in my own way how I felt about it. I studied many religions and spirituality, both Eastern and Western philosophy, cultural anthropology, history, early western civilization, biology, microbiology, physics, chemistry, math, paleontology, genetics, and several other subjects of interest.
    My hypothesis was after all this study, and the evidence points in the direction that humankind created the idea of a god figure, both as a coping mechanism for comforting the grieving, the sick, the injured, the poor, and all the maladies that effect humankind, as well as created a god figure to unify under a banner of common thought. Furthermore, humans created and used their own god figure to oppress, enslave, torture, rape, murder, and do cruel and inhumane things to other humans to divide and conquer other nations of humans, with the falsified notions of 'god empowerment' being 'on their side.' Outside of that, holy texts only prove that religions of the world exist. Not necessarily the existence of a diety. This seems to make the most sense to me, and that's where I found the evidence pointing at. I say, believe what you want.
    I'll take the Marcus Aurelius wager,"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
    MBTi: INTJ

    trifix: 8w9, 5w6, 3w2. Primary Type 8; "The Leader." 8w9;"The Bear."

    Global 5: sloan RCOEI; sloan+ RcoE|I|; primary Inquisitive; R(80%)C(60%)O(64%)E(70%)I(86%)
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  6. #46
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    I was watching a film where a man was discussing the problem of free will in relation to science, and apparently much like the idea of God knowing our fate but us having free will, our lives are mostly governed by natural laws which are unavoidable, but we still have unique personalities.

    I've noticed a lot in my studies that scientists are just starting to "prove" things that certain groups of religious people already knew for centuries.

    This is particular impressive in the field of medicine, where even in Western medicine, doctors are going to have to back-track from a purely Western approach, because they're acknowledging the validity more and more of preventative medicine in things like massage and eating the correct foods, which is an ancient idea in the East, as well moving back toward more natural birthing practices for women (with some medical supervision) and the power of emotions and faith and meditation and belief upon the physical health.

    In the future, people will recognize the validity of East and West working together, and of science being the what and religion being the why. I sincerely believe this.

    Because when everything attempts to become too Westernized something is missing, women were having unnecessary C-sections, doctors weren't acknowledging the validity of natural medicine and the power of the mind at all, and so forth. It's only as we've come more into the 21st century that things are becoming more balanced.

    Eastern and Western thought are both necessary for the optimal state of humanity. Focusing too much on Western thought becomes ridiculously literal and black/white, right/wrong, divisive, and what many Easterners refer to as a wild imbalance of too much masculine energy.
    With the electronic media the West is moving East, and with universal literacy the East is moving West.

  7. #47
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    Critical Thinking

    The real divide is between those who are in love with critical thinking and those who are in love with belief.

    This morning, down at the Farmers' Market, I was talking to two Buddhists. And I voiced two cogent criticisms of Buddhism. Well, what a faux pas. The last thing Buddhism wecomes is critical thinking. They tried to maintain a benevolent attitude to me but it was plain they regarded me malevolently. But what they regarded with malevolence was critical thinking.

  8. #48
    Junior Member Hetha's Avatar
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    @ Victor: Very true. I've encountered this with believers of many different paths and faiths. Critical thinking seems to be the enemy of faith.
    MBTi: INTJ

    trifix: 8w9, 5w6, 3w2. Primary Type 8; "The Leader." 8w9;"The Bear."

    Global 5: sloan RCOEI; sloan+ RcoE|I|; primary Inquisitive; R(80%)C(60%)O(64%)E(70%)I(86%)
    Extroversion |||| 20%
    Orderliness |||||||||||||||| 64%
    Emotional Stability |||||||||||||| 60%
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hetha View Post
    @Victor: Very true. I've encountered this with believers of many different paths and faiths. Critical thinking seems to be the enemy of faith.
    Yes, it does seem to be. But critical thinking is taking faith seriously.

    Critical thinking starts with Socrates in Ancient Greece and was rediscovered in the Renaissance of Europe and fully flowered in the Western Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th centuries. It is the glory of the West.

  10. #50
    Transient Faceless Beauty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hetha View Post
    I don't personally believe in any form of a divine being. I haven't met anyone yet either able to prove or disprove the existence of one. I'm just personally not convinced that there is one, or that there has to be something out there or within us. I'm not short-sighted; not sadly limited in my understanding. My understanding is my own.

    That said, I spent more than 30 years questing in my own way how I felt about it. I studied many religions and spirituality, both Eastern and Western philosophy, cultural anthropology, history, early western civilization, biology, microbiology, physics, chemistry, math, paleontology, genetics, and several other subjects of interest.
    My hypothesis was after all this study, and the evidence points in the direction that humankind created the idea of a god figure, both as a coping mechanism for comforting the grieving, the sick, the injured, the poor, and all the maladies that effect humankind, as well as created a god figure to unify under a banner of common thought. Furthermore, humans created and used their own god figure to oppress, enslave, torture, rape, murder, and do cruel and inhumane things to other humans to divide and conquer other nations of humans, with the falsified notions of 'god empowerment' being 'on their side.' Outside of that, holy texts only prove that religions of the world exist. Not necessarily the existence of a diety. This seems to make the most sense to me, and that's where I found the evidence pointing at. I say, believe what you want.
    I'll take the Marcus Aurelius wager,"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
    Yes! In my short lifespan and with the little knowledge I've gained so far, I'm starting to see that religion is more of a coping mechanism to deal with things such as death, a way to understand the world, and a way to form some sort of basic moral code for members of society to follow or something like that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."-Roger Kint, The Usual Suspects
    "You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."- Tyler Durden, Fight Club
    ENTJ, LIE-Ni, 9w8-6w5-3w2

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