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View Poll Results: Self Immolation is...?

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Thread: Self-immolation

  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpravity View Post
    Hey, speak for yourself. My country ain't got no nuclear warheads.
    Derpravity's a Mystery Cat: she's called the Hidden Paw--
    For she's the master criminal who can defy the Law.
    She's the bafflement of Scotland Yard, the Flying Squad's despair:
    For when they reach the scene of crime--Derpravity's not there!

  2. #12
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    You have a right to do what you want with your own body, and I do find it tragically noble. But what exactly does it accomplish, other than causing pain and sorrow for those that love you?
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    You have a right to do what you want with your own body, and I do find it tragically noble. But what exactly does it accomplish, other than causing pain and sorrow for those that love you?
    Better to cause sorrow and pain for those who don't love you. Am I right?

  4. #14
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Depends on what is going on in their mind.

    Assuming the person was trying to inspire people to join the cause, and that he/she genuinely see their lives as being less important than their cause, I'd say it's more noble than stupid.

    Otoh, if the person did that expecting some kind of payoff in an afterlife, then it was totally utterly stupid, so stupid that words can't describe.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Depends on what is going on in their mind.

    Assuming the person was trying to inspire people to join the cause, and that he/she genuinely see their lives as being less important than their cause, I'd say it's more noble than stupid.

    Otoh, if the person did that expecting some kind of payoff in an afterlife, then it was totally utterly stupid, so stupid that words can't describe.
    This has all happened before many times, so that's where the "stupid" accusation comes from. Why repeat something that doesn't work?

    This whole "peaceful protest" thing is not a language the Chinese government understands apparently. Besides the government, the rest of China's population that may be sympathetic is still too busy to fight for Tibetan causes. A lot of the lower classes in China live in literal rabbit cages (and they actually pay rent to boot). Others travel from one end of the country to another to find decent work - and end up away from their families for months at a time. The only thing they worry about is making enough money to send home. Keep your head down, mind your own business. And those in the upper classes definitely don't care.

  6. #16
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    This has all happened before many times, so that's where the "stupid" accusation comes from. Why repeat something that doesn't work?

    This whole "peaceful protest" thing is not a language the Chinese government understands apparently. Besides the government, the rest of China's population that may be sympathetic is still too busy to fight for Tibetan causes. A lot of the lower classes in China live in literal rabbit cages (and they actually pay rent to boot). Others travel from one end of the country to another to find decent work - and end up away from their families for months at a time. The only thing they worry about is making enough money to send home. Keep your head down, mind your own business. And those in the upper classes definitely don't care.
    It will certainly have long term effects. Could take a generation or two though.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

  7. #17
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    It will certainly have long term effects. Could take a generation or two though.
    I suspect China will slowly, of it's own will, transition more and more into a capitalist, and even democratic superpower. Places like Tibet will be the equivalent of the injustice done to Native Americans. They'll make some reparations and pay lip service, but never pay back quite enough. They will be the price to pay to get where they're going.

    Maybe. Half of the reason America pays lip service to Native Americans now is because of Geronimo. He was a legitimate badass. Tibet has no one like that, no one who shames America into some respect.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    It's an impressive display of discipline, but you'd think with all that discipline they'd come up with a focused way of making a statement that doesn't involve them dying, yeah?

    I'd describe the idea of trying to barter against someone by saying that you'll hurt yourself unless they do something as a form of emotional blackmail.

    I don't think it's all that effective, but of course, we are having this conversation now because they did it. So it worked.

    Still, there's probably a better way to go about this.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  9. #19
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Do you guys think some religions are more likely to do the "sacrifice for a noble cause" thing? Christianity certainly has the martyr motif as well as buddhism (self-deprivation in search of enlightenment) and I suppose honor societies (japanese already mentioned) as well as legends like Dido, Prometheus, etc. I wonder how it is connected to the evolution of morality (specifically altruism).
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #20
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    Didn't self-immolation by a Tunisian street vendor, begin the Arab Spring?

    I guess it depends on the context.

    I am the opposite, I can imagine easily wanting to die for a cause, if somebody took all of your freedoms, this is a quite normal human reaction. .

    The unusual thing is to it openly as suicide jsut to yourself, rather than fighting to the death as part of a rebellion, and taking out some of your enemy as well. Even suicide attacks (used by Japanese and Tamils long before Hamas, by the way), make more sense than this, because it is still an act of war.

    But purely killing yourself and none of the enemy...it makes it harder for me to understand.

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