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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    If people stop being raised to be religious, then a lot less people will be this way. .
    Then why did Madeleine Murray O'Hare's son become a preacher?

    It's a really, really bad idea. It absolutely cannot be achieved by violence or enforced atheism.

    The only solution that is even comparable is psychotherapy, like suggested in the OP...and still...then....no...probably not.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its secularism and aggressive adolescent atheism which needs to be eliminated but no ones goinf to admit that while they dont provide as good a bogey for liberals to bitch and whine about in their comfortable borgouise circles
    Yes aggressive adolescent atheism is almost comical; especially when the aggressive adolescent atheists are adults. They actually think exactly like the most intolerant, irrational religious people, and don't even realize it.

    Besides, some religious philosophies are officially agnostic, which in my opinion, is a much more mature and scientific position to take, if you're going to try to "educate" one into people.

    People's cultural mythology is very important to them; without it they become psychologically fragmented people. Look at the U.S. everyone here is on psychotropic drugs, Jung was right, you can't unite people in a less mythological way and expect them to stay sane.

    I wish some people would comprehend that science is not the answer to everything, it's only one mode of thought, and there are even religious people who embrace science and who are scientists. So.

    I've actually been close to a couple of atheists who still believed in a spiritual realm, ghosts, evil, and/or astrology, so atheism doesn't necessarily indicate that people don't have alternative belief systems or that they aren't practicing some religious philosophy.

    I find that most atheists on the Internet are adolescents who don't even understand this about religion, they just see it as a polarizing war of "scientific atheism" versus "fundamentalist Christianity" or "extremist murderous Islam" and I'm just kind of like "oh dear." I can't even entertain these people anymore, I actually saw a thread on another forum where a guy asked if Christianity causes narcissism and I was just like

    So yeah...it's not as simple as people seem to want to make it, it's not like a debate between political parties.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It shouldn't. Soviet Union already tried. Disaster. After 75 years of atheist oppression, there's religious people all over that region.
    Very good point indeed. However the Soviets didn't replace religion. They suppressed it.

    Is replacement not the best way to eradicate something? Soviets never replaced it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    This question presumes religion needs to be eradicated, a premise I'm not so sure I agree on
    Though I don't agree with your point of view I shall respect it.

    The point of this thread is not to argue whether religion is required or not. It is to find a way to replace it. So what I am looking for are ideas. If one doesn't agree that religion shouldn't be replaced one doesn't have to contribute to a simple thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by KatharineML View Post
    We have had the new toy for a long time. Science. Our own brains and what they can comprehend.
    Science has been there. However it has never been used to (on a mass scale like religion) to suppress religious beliefs. So while science is trying hard to find answers based on facts and experiments religion reminds 6 year old children that someone is up there who loves them but will send you to hell if you don't believe in him.

    If I am a 6 year old, I'll choose that someone over science on any given day. Thank you fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by KatharineML View Post
    Yet we are ridiculous. How can we ever fully comprehend that which we did not create and cannot control.
    One has to create to fully comprehend? Lolz.
    One cannot comprehend what one cannot control? Lolz

    Quote Originally Posted by KatharineML View Post
    I agree with Ene. Faith is inextinguishable. Faith is, in fact, where all good things grow ... including science! Check your history
    Perseverance and motivation is where science grows. Faith in one's self doesn't mean that person has faith in a higher power. Try not to hijack the word faith so that it could be used for religion alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by KatharineML View Post
    I feel you to be somewhat out of place, standing over the human race as if you yourself were not part of it, likening it to a child with a toy and seeking to distract it with a better one. Do you honestly feel yourself to be this close to God?
    I do very well feel like a part of it. From where did you get that idea? What you are doing is disgusting. Don't troll people by insulting them to belittle them so that their points of views would be put aside. Pathetic little tactic it is.

    I don't feel close to God at all. Because unlike you I haven't seen him. If and when I do I will start to believe. Don't tell me to read a book on it and start believing. Or worst; look at the beautiful birds and the bees and ask myself who created them.

    Pathetic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    /rhetorical
    So I take it that means you believe religion has no good qualities?
    Or maybe that means you believe religion's good qualities can be replaced by other things that have no bad qualities?
    Or maybe that means you believe that religion is only about beliefs?

    /Either way,
    As Tinker pointed out, how is the premise that religion should be replaced not a belief on your part? You never did bother to make a case for this, nor did any of the other jerking buddies who graced you with a comment or answer.
    What you said sounds nice, since it rhymes. However it has little value to it.

    I never said religion has little value to it.
    I never said or meant that religion's good qualities can be replaced. However going through that rhetoric it is obvious that it can be done.
    And with a 'thing' that doesn't have bad qualities? Yes.

    Did Tinker really say that? No he didn't. However as I pointed out to him;

    The point of this thread is not to argue whether religion is required or not. It is to find a way to replace it. So what I am looking for are ideas. If one doesn't agree that religion shouldn't be replaced one doesn't have to contribute to a simple thread.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It shouldn't. Soviet Union already tried. Disaster. After 75 years of atheist oppression, there's religious people all over that region.

    I think the United States has tried too...with corporatist oligopoly capitalism. And that also doesn't seem to be the answer.

    There isn't a replacement for religion.
    Awesome post.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Besides, some religious philosophies are officially agnostic, which in my opinion, is a much more mature and scientific position to take, if you're going to try to "educate" one into people.

    People's cultural mythology is very important to them; without it they become psychologically fragmented people. Look at the U.S. everyone here is on psychotropic drugs, Jung was right, you can't unite people in a less mythological way and expect them to stay sane.

    I wish some people would comprehend that science is not the answer to everything, it's only one mode of thought, and there are even religious people who embrace science and who are scientists. So.
    There are several critical points here.

    1. Agnosticism is the only rationally defensible position on the divine. The few religious groups who espouse it are some of the sanest and least repressive/obnoxious. True atheism (the claim that there is no God) is as much a matter of faith as any form of belief in God(s).

    2. Mythology is very important to humans. This is apparent in our love of entertainment - stories, music, movies, etc. - as well as in our idolizing the providers thereof. We need (or at least want) larger-than-life examples, whether of what to do, or what not to do. Perhaps this all comes down to some need to process ideas symbolically, in a way that transcends any distinctions of type and is just fundamentally human.

    3. As a scientist who also pursues spirituality, I can attest to the highlighted, for myself and many of my colleagues. There are many questions that can be answered satisfactorily only through science, but many that cannot and require a different approach. As always, the best tool for the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    The point of this thread is not to argue whether religion is required or not. It is to find a way to replace it. So what I am looking for are ideas. If one doesn't agree that religion shouldn't be replaced one doesn't have to contribute to a simple thread.

    Science has been there. However it has never been used to (on a mass scale like religion) to suppress religious beliefs. So while science is trying hard to find answers based on facts and experiments religion reminds 6 year old children that someone is up there who loves them but will send you to hell if you don't believe in him.

    If I am a 6 year old, I'll choose that someone over science on any given day. Thank you fear.
    You may be onto something here. Perhaps the best replacement for religion is a collective but non-theistic mythology that is openly recognized as such. This would include everything from Santa and the Easter Bunny to classics like Aesop's Fables. As children, we would take them more literally, but then evolve into a more mature appreciation of their figurative value as we become adults. (Seems to me the best way to handle religious mythoi as well, though many adherents would disagree.)

    As for the highlighted, that depends on the 6-year-old. Even at that age, I preferred the sense of control that science (or at least observable cause and effect behavior) placed in my hands.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Yes aggressive adolescent atheism is almost comical; especially when the aggressive adolescent atheists are adults. They actually think exactly like the most intolerant, irrational religious people, and don't even realize it.

    Besides, some religious philosophies are officially agnostic, which in my opinion, is a much more mature and scientific position to take, if you're going to try to "educate" one into people.

    People's cultural mythology is very important to them; without it they become psychologically fragmented people. Look at the U.S. everyone here is on psychotropic drugs, Jung was right, you can't unite people in a less mythological way and expect them to stay sane.

    I wish some people would comprehend that science is not the answer to everything, it's only one mode of thought, and there are even religious people who embrace science and who are scientists. So.

    I've actually been close to a couple of atheists who still believed in a spiritual realm, ghosts, evil, and/or astrology, so atheism doesn't necessarily indicate that people don't have alternative belief systems or that they aren't practicing some religious philosophy.

    I find that most atheists on the Internet are adolescents who don't even understand this about religion, they just see it as a polarizing war of "scientific atheism" versus "fundamentalist Christianity" or "extremist murderous Islam" and I'm just kind of like "oh dear." I can't even entertain these people anymore, I actually saw a thread on another forum where a guy asked if Christianity causes narcissism and I was just like

    So yeah...it's not as simple as people seem to want to make it, it's not like a debate between political parties.
    Yes, there is a something underlying it all, personality structures or character which doesnt change but just finds channels, whether its religion or atheism or whatever.

  7. #47
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    Entranced

    We all love to be entranced.

    And not so long ago the main way to be entranced on Sunday was to go to church.

    But today we can be entranced by the movies, television, books, guns, driving, sex, exercise, sport, alcohol, drugs and, last but not least, the internet.

    So in prosperous countries religion is already being displaced, and the churches are emptying out on Sunday.

  8. #48
    Senior Member KatharineML's Avatar
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    religion reminds 6 year old children that someone is up there who loves them but will send you to hell if you don't believe in him.
    Religion is just realistic. Without God, we create our own hells. God is the one trying to save us from them.


    I do very well feel like a part of it. From where did you get that idea? What you are doing is disgusting. Don't troll people by insulting them to belittle them so that their points of views would be put aside. Pathetic little tactic it is.

    I don't feel close to God at all. Because unlike you I haven't seen him. If and when I do I will start to believe. Don't tell me to read a book on it and start believing. Or worst; look at the beautiful birds and the bees and ask myself who created them.

    Pathetic!
    I know it hurts, but really it is not pathetic to look at the birds and the bees and wonder who created them. I'm sorry to have come across as insulting before, I was just gently challenging you. I'm also sorry that you feel religion has made you unduly afraid. However, I do think that life can be shit and that we do need to be afraid of the potential we have for making it so. That's the only fear God or religion has ever instilled in us, and it is a valid one.

    I'll stay out of this thread now though as you are right, I'm not really commenting on how we could eradicate religion. Though, I think we are already doing all we can on that front - our most powerful forces - media and education - mock religion and teach it only as part of ancient history, something we've evolved out of. Yet still intelligent people believe. Strange eh. Sorry I have no answer for you, but to say maybe consider that some things, like those you love, you can't replace.

  9. #49
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KatharineML View Post
    Religion is just realistic. Without God, we create our own hells. God is the one trying to save us from them.
    Some people say we create our own gods. That would mean we create our own hells regardless.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #50
    Senior Member KatharineML's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Some people say we create our own gods. That would mean we create our own hells regardless.
    Religion is always taking the rap for the evils of man. It's just not true. We can spoil and destroy anything - even the religion that could save us. Just because something has been used and abused by evil and/or ignorant people doesn't mean it is destructive in itself. The knowledge of God is like nuclear power - essential to life - a power that fundamentally supports and creates life and yet which can also be warped to do the very opposite.

    Instead of getting rid of religion, lets get rid of the warping. I'm with infperson -
    Quote Originally Posted by Infperson View Post
    I think there should be religious education at schools. The children should know the "official version" of their religion otherwise they believe that kinky bullshit their parents taught them. Christians should know the traditional and historical Jesus, so they build their own oppinion on religion.

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