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  1. #31
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    There is a teaching in some sects of Christianity that says one day all believers will be simultaneously removed from the planet and those who wish for a world without God and without believers will get exactly what they wish for....at least for a while.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #32
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    is current religious culture under threat? yes


    but there is a larger question: will religion - a large spectrum of entities - itself die out? to answer that, we need to answer a more playful thought experiment:

    what new religions might arise?

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    But it seems to me that to want the rid the world of believers, without even atttempting to understand them or see the world through their eyes, places the one who wants to be rid of them into the same category....dare I say? as bigots and extremists." I live in the Bible Belt, too, and yes, religion has bad points, but to want to rid the world of believers...why that's absolute fantatism and very hypocritical. It almost sounds like these "intellectual" people are saying, "I want to rid the world of everyone not like me."
    All I was saying was that they can keep that shit to themselves. I'm not trying to teach them anything about religion/philosophy. I never said I wanted to rid the world of believers. So why direct this at me?
    Dirt Farmer

  4. #34
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I wasn't directing it at you, and I'm sorry if it seemed to you that I was. I don't even know you. The only reference to you, personally, is that I said where I lived and was attempting to make a connection.

    Now for the whole subject in general. Let me say it plain and clear, "people should play fair."
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  5. #35
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    easy, start teaching philosophy in kindergarten. Added bonus is that this way students already have a better base for science when they can understand it.

  6. #36
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    easy, start teaching philosophy in kindergarten.
    Easy? And what happens when the children themselves want to embrace religious ideas? Do you enforce your own doctrine? Do you take over parental control (including wiping their asses and paying subsistence)? And if their parents don't like it, what happens to them?

    What you're ultimately going to get is conflict. Which is not so "easy". The sooner you have the balls to embrace conflict, instead of relying on some belief that your ideas hold intrinsic worth, you might actually get something done. For a little while at least. If you actually attempted any of this and thought it was going to go over smoothly, you'd find yourself with a bullet in your head sooner or later. Only a few religions would let it happen easily (The Taoists under Mao's cultural revolution nodded their heads and walked into labor camps without much complaint.. but you're not going to get that "welcome" reception 90% of the time).

    I wish people to coexist, so don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating any of that. I just think if you're going to do it, don't be naive. Mao was someone who knew what it entailed. "Battling with heaven, the joy is limitless; battling with Earth, the joy is limitless; battling with people, the joy is limitless."

  7. #37
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    Doctrine? This is philosophy we are talking about. If the child chooses to accept religion then he has the liberty to do so (also he can be both like thomas aquinas). And I'm starting with the assumption that this is in a modern liberal democracy such as the United States and therefore this would only be in public schools. Parents can still home school or place their children in private school if they disagree with what is being taught in the public arena. What is so naive? Unreasonable people don't make the answers more complicated; only the implementation of those answers. 2+2=4 no matter how many idiots think it's 3. And the question wasn't about how to implement it was how it would even be possible. easy.

  8. #38
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    And the question wasn't about how to implement it was how it would even be possible. easy.
    No, it's all about implementation. Nothing else actually matters. I know you Ne types love airing out thought experiments and possibilities, but it's why it's not so "easy". You're not going to do shit or tackle the problem in any concrete way or consider the real nuances how it'd blow up in your face.

  9. #39
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    There are some things that I'd reply to, but, effort


    I'll halfheartedly state that I agree with the assumption that we want to eradicate it, mostly to the extent to which it leads to bullshit such as "your sins cause natural disasters" and other unhelpful teachings/conclusions.

    Fully assuming that we'd want to, part of the solution is to allow it to happen naturally. In the process of gathering "really real explanations" for things, we eventually do wind up collectively accepting that those explanations work better than our placeholder explanations. It takes a while for the more workable explanations to be absorbed by the whole, but I trust that we do wind up believing the more workable stuff.

    It takes too damn long, though. If you want it to happen faster, and if you don't give a fuck about the means, you can start some wars or something.

  10. #40
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    It shouldn't. Soviet Union already tried. Disaster. After 75 years of atheist oppression, there's religious people all over that region.

    I think the United States has tried too...with corporatist oligopoly capitalism. And that also doesn't seem to be the answer.

    There isn't a replacement for religion. Except for perhaps Transcendental Meditation...and some people would still call that a kind of religious belief.

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