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  1. #71
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    I think science has, from a certain point of view, become largely like a religion.
    Religion proceeds from the certainty of revelation, while science proceeds from the scepticism of the scientific method.

    So religion gives us the comfort of certainty, while science gives us the surprises of scepticism.

  2. #72
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    bitch, you dont mean science. you mean scientism!
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
    -Bruce Lee

  3. #73
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    As a scientist looking to leave science because it's become a fraudulent and farcical enterprise, this thread makes me lulz.

    hello patent law and money!

  4. #74
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I think what is being said not the science=religion, but rather that people can depend too much on science just like they can on religion. Just my interpretation don't shoot.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #75
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    For those who think that the peer-review process of publication and funding actually works:

    http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrez...science-fraud/

    For those who think that "scientific method" is adhered to, and high-profile publications = important publications:
    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/...l.pmed.0020124
    http://www.nature.com/news/replicati...d-copy-1.10634

    For simple/editorial-style summaries of what is going on in general:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...d-bad-practice
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ud-replication

    As someone who's seen how rotten the system is from the inside and how self-deluding salesman scientists are... I'm just glad to be getting out. There IS good science, don't get me wrong. There are loads of individuals I know who are in science and who have impeccable ethics and would never let their ambition get in the way of scientific progress. But these individuals are building their findings on a house of cards because their peers around them do not have the same level of integrity. Science is not a religion. Neither is it a process. In the modern world, science is just like any business, except that some believe it to be more prestigious than others. The most ruthless and the ones with the least consideration of what is "right" play the political game to get to the top, continue to believe their own lies and destroy/defame those who disagree. That is "science" from my perspective. Science deserves no more or less respect than any other industry.

  6. #76
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    my mom's a scientist. She does research is figuring out how enviroment and nutrition effect neuro cognitive development from infant to age 4. But she also did research on osteoporosis
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #77
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Science is a method. No religion I've known of really has any method, no less is a method.
    Actually, I would suggest that every ideology and theology are methods. There are fundamental differences between the methods of science and religion. Buddhism is a method that explores perception and the internal world. All forms of meditation are a method. Faith-based religions are methods for establishing and maintaining faith and so tend to be closed systems. When the mind wanders outside its boundaries, there are thought stopping methods using various mantras that people are instructed to recite or think. Religions tend to establish methods for creating and maintaining social structures and solidifying individual perception.

    The main difference with science is that it is an open system of inquiry and is a method intended to continually build upon itself, disprove itself, and reform assumptions rather than solidifying assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Religions have plenty of methods. Unfortunately, they don't lead to much due to lack of any correspondence with reality. The main exception is meditation techniques, but those don't require actual belief in a deity to work.

    Human inquiry has its roots in religion and occultism, since that was the main way of attempting to satify the desire to know and understand. But it is religion without science that is lame, or more accurately, we are lame if all we have is religion. Science can stand on its own two feet, and support us along with it.
    I think this is where a lot of the confusion lies. Because the scientific method is fairly new, it is difficult for people to get their heads around. There are traces of faith-based reasoning that intermingle with our scientific processes. In this way science can be a religion for some people because they are still using the inner constructs and thought processes established by religion, but they just fill those inner containers with scientific lingo. Also people who have never learned science will interpret what they see based on their own thought processes without realizing that it is possible to have approaches fundamentally different from their own.

    I was almost never taught good science growing up, and only had one 8th grade class that had moments of sharing scientific inquiry. Also, Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" program and Mr. Spock's logic from Star Trek were about the only glimpses I had into a non-faith-based approach. Because of this I had trouble seeing the difference between religious faith and scientific assumptions until I was an adult. I always had an inner drive for clarity of thought and those crumbs of reasoning I encountered are something I readily consumed. I surrounded myself with logical, reasoned people, and after several years was able to comprehend more deeply what the scientific method was and why clear reasoning that can be externally validated is fundamentally important to humanity.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  8. #78

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    As I understand religion it provides an ethical framework and object of devotion, I'm not sure if science actually qualifies as religion given that criteria.

  9. #79
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    As I understand religion it provides an ethical framework and object of devotion, I'm not sure if science actually qualifies as religion given that criteria.
    By that definition I would say neither science nor religion apply, as neither is necessary to or inherently creates an ethical framework.

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    Actually, I would suggest that every ideology and theology are methods. There are fundamental differences between the methods of science and religion. Buddhism is a method that explores perception and the internal world. All forms of meditation are a method. Faith-based religions are methods for establishing and maintaining faith and so tend to be closed systems. When the mind wanders outside its boundaries, there are thought stopping methods using various mantras that people are instructed to recite or think. Religions tend to establish methods for creating and maintaining social structures and solidifying individual perception.
    Well here's a question: Can you qualify as part of a religion without having a particular cosmological and ethical belief?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    By that definition I would say neither science nor religion apply, as neither is necessary to or inherently creates an ethical framework.
    It is not the first time we disagree.

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