Why people are spiritual in the first place?

[Totenkindly]

For me that quote alludes to the experience when one is fully in the moment and everything seems exactly how it should be. Everything is One and there is not such things as time or duality. I have had that experience in fleeting moments. Every atom of my being vibrates in unison with all that is. I want to develop this state of consciousness and that is why I am spiritual to learn to live fully in the moment with an awareness of the true nature of things.

It's quite the contradiction, isn't it?

You can only be in the moment when you're not aware you're in the moment.

As soon as you step away from yourself to observe you are in the moment, you are no longer in the moment and the moment is lost.

It is like being Aware yet Unaware all at once.

 

[Abhaya]

It's quite the contradiction, isn't it?

Contradiction is where the secret dwells

Also, I am not talking about a strictly mental awareness more of an awareness of being. But maybe that is what you mean by..

It is like being Aware yet Unaware all at once.

Words just don't do this "stuff" justice.

 

[Little Linguist]

Prove it.

At the risk of sounding totally foolish, ignorant, and stupid:

Trying to prove we have spirits is like trying to prove that we love someone.

You either believe it, or you do not.

Some things cannot be proven because we do not fully understand them. We just believe, intuit, and know.

Surely you can understand.

 

[gokartride]

I'll say right off the bat that I have many thoughts on this, but don't worry, I'd be lucky to corral only one or two (at most) at any one time.

To me essential spirituality is a recognition, great or small, of a connection to something beyond us that is profound, meaningful, mysterious, and good...that's why we search as we do. Ultimately, it is all about connection. That easy to say, but a whole lot of other things flow from that, including the myraid of wonderful paradoxes that has been alluded to.

The spiritual world, from what I can see, is no less complex than the natural world....both in the micro and macro sense. It is a delightful place.

 

[Ilah]

For me it all comes down to the N. Spirituality is just something I intuit. Certain places or objects "feel" spiritual. By feel I don't mean emotionally, it is more of a "knowing" than a "feeling." it is extremely strong. It goes beyond logic or emotions. It cannot be explained it just is.

Sometimes I feel the presence of the divine and at times I have heard the voice of the divine (in my head, not out loud). For the record, it was words of comfort, no profound new messsage. I am drawn to places, objects, traditions but I could not really tell you why.

This has shaped my spiritual path and led me away from the tradition I was raised in. I feel the presence of the divine in so many things that were not part of the faith I was raised in.

As with all things N for me, it is very difficult to put into words anyone else can understand. My T side is annoyed and a bit embaressed that my N side does not seem to have any logic to it.

 

[gokartride]

I am drawn to places, objects, traditions but I could not really tell you why.

I think that is fair. I generally start off there, but after some study (over a period of many years) and becoming more familiar with the subject...that initial inspiration is even stronger/more solid/more vivid to me.

Oh, yes, I could go on for hours explaining every detail of this stuff....but why? Gifts are given to different people for different reasons, and this must be appreciated. I think there is something to be said for just going with your intuition if it is strong enough. Even though I followed up mine with some significant study, I wound up coming back full circle, in the end, to that initial mystical connection!!

 

[01011010]

People want their lives to have meaning. It's a rather scary thought to believe there's no point to it all.

 

[Edasich]

I will leave this completly open because I am interested in all viewpoints.

Because they desire to be whole. Everyone feels this, it has nothing to do with type, lol. Why do people often rush into relationships? Because they long to be loved, to feel complete (fleeting “love” of course though, lol).

I read somewhere that the more spiritual a person is, the more energy they see in another person, as opposed to that person’s projected image, and just seeing the shallow (looks, wealth, achievements blah blah). Seeing that person’s essence.

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

I think you can be existentialist and still spiritual at the same time... and not in the Kierkegaard way...

 

[murkrow]

People want their lives to have meaning. It's a rather scary thought to believe there's no point to it all.

It's not the scariness, it's the implausibility of there not being one combined with the impracticality of our wanting one.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think you can be existentialist and still spiritual at the same time... and not in the Kierkegaard way...

Expand?

 

[Totenkindly]

At the risk of sounding totally foolish, ignorant, and stupid:

Trying to prove we have spirits is like trying to prove that we love someone.
You either believe it, or you do not.
Some things cannot be proven because we do not fully understand them. We just believe, intuit, and know.
Surely you can understand.

Totally.

But it leaves me in quite a conundrum.

Especially because I lived for many many years in the zone of religious belief, where I felt forced to believe something I had no proof for yet people insisted was true.

Eventually I came to a point where I decided the truth was more ambiguous than people let on and there's no way we can know these things for sure. Meanwhile I had spent many years around people making truth claims spuriously that were just faith claims (and they were judging those who disagreed as incorrect), so I'm sensitive to it.

So when someone makes a faith claim as if it were self-apparent or "true" in a more objective fashion, I can't help but just clarify (by asking for "proof") that it really is just a firmly held belief but not something that one can assume is inherently obvious or true.

Which is the long way of saying, I know you can't prove it, I don't expect you to prove it, and I just wanted it to be clear that it can't be proven... and once that is agreed on that it's just one's personal belief, then things are cool.

 

[murkrow]

I still don't know what people mean when they say spiritual.

 

[Ilah]

What do you feel about things you N tells is true? Do you discount the things that cannot be objectively proven?

Are messages from your N treated differently if the are about spiritual belief than they are about other subjects?

Ilah

Totally.

But it leaves me in quite a conundrum.

Especially because I lived for many many years in the zone of religious belief, where I felt forced to believe something I had no proof for yet people insisted was true.

Eventually I came to a point where I decided the truth was more ambiguous than people let on and there's no way we can know these things for sure. Meanwhile I had spent many years around people making truth claims spuriously that were just faith claims (and they were judging those who disagreed as incorrect), so I'm sensitive to it.

So when someone makes a faith claim as if it were self-apparent or "true" in a more objective fashion, I can't help but just clarify (by asking for "proof") that it really is just a firmly held belief but not something that one can assume is inherently obvious or true.

Which is the long way of saying, I know you can't prove it, I don't expect you to prove it, and I just wanted it to be clear that it can't be proven... and once that is agreed on that it's just one's personal belief, then things are cool.

 

[Totenkindly]

What do you feel about things you N tells is true? Do you discount the things that cannot be objectively proven?

Neither.
You can neither count or discount N.
That's the point.

It's a source of information that you have to tag as "suspect" because it can't be validated as strongly as others. (Although Owl might disagree with me, based on his comments about the material world being equivalently illusory... again something I accept philosophically but see as impractical in terms of daily life.)

Are messages from your N treated differently if the are about spiritual belief than they are about other subjects?

Nope.

Spiritual beliefs that have a tangible tie-in get more credibility because they can be validated... just as my intuitions about other things (like how a system works, what's going on in a social group, the motivations of a particular individual, etc.) all have more credibility if I can tie them into some sort of framework of evidence.

[This is why for many years I accepted many of my religious beliefs... because I thought they had been somewhat validated by experience and research. Then the more I looked around and studied various research, the more I realized the religious beliefs might not be as supported as I had thought... and i realized that some of my experiences could be viewed in other ways. So my N beliefs lost some power and/or had to change, because the support had weakened.]

Again, cross-validation is key. Otherwise you realistically have to tag "N" ideas as "unvalidated."

Note: You can choose to act on them as if they are real, but you still need to be clear about whether they've been corroborated from outside evidences... especially if you are trying to convince someone else of their validity.

I am very very picky about people arguing as if something is "true" when it's merely something they "believe." I want information tagged correctly in a discussion.

 

[Synapse]

Its an anchor that helps adjust a persons center of gravity to deal with life. To have a system that that gives people some sort of comfort to exist in the world without feeling empty and being spiritual helps to do that.

 

[Nonsensical]

Everyone is born a spirit, or baby Buddha. (most) Children are molded by society to being spiritless.

 

[Not_Me]

For me it all comes down to the N. Spirituality is just something I intuit. Certain places or objects "feel" spiritual. By feel I don't mean emotionally, it is more of a "knowing" than a "feeling." it is extremely strong. It goes beyond logic or emotions. It cannot be explained it just is.

Simply believing that something is true does not make it so. A paranoid schizophrenic "knows" that the world is out to get him, but the strength of his conviction obviously has no bearing on the actual truth.

Shouldn't spiritual "gut feelings" be subjected to the same test of validity?

 

[Nonsensical]

People are spiritual because their purpose has awoken inside them...they know what to do, what will happen, and wheree they are going.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Resurrection.