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View Poll Results: When?

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35. You may not vote on this poll
  • It already has in spirit if not in numbers

    5 14.29%
  • In the next 100 years

    4 11.43%
  • In the next 1,000 years

    3 8.57%
  • In the next 10,000 years

    0 0%
  • In the next 100,000 years

    0 0%
  • In the next 1,000,000+ years

    0 0%
  • Never

    23 65.71%
  • whenever the singularity occurs

    0 0%
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Results 51 to 60 of 94

  1. #51
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Well.. if science claims anything, it always gives you the means to reproduce the results. So it's no trick (in some cases, it's impossible to recreate experiments for the layman.. unless you have a multibillion dollar lab and the samples they worked with, but... I'm sure if you "begged" enough, some university might let you observe).
    and how many people would understand what they saw?

    and the last part was a joke
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #52
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Atheism is a negative 'belief', I'm unsure how it could replace religion (which is an incredibly general word, and I wish people would be more sophisticated using it). Religion is a codified form of values and world-view based on varying ideas of the supernatural ineffable. Atheism is just the denial of the belief in god. It doesn't inherently include a system of values, or imply the ends to aim for with societal structure. It's just not the same class of 'object'.

  3. #53
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Religion like art will never die because both are based on the suspension of disbelief.

  4. #54
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    E.O Wilson had an interesting answer to this question, he documented it in "On Human Nature". http://www.amazon.com/On-Human-Natur...n+Human+nature

    Religion serves fundamental human needs in the following respects and it often does so more efficiently than alternative institutions.

    1. It provides its practitioners with powerful socio-cultural incentives to preserve group cohesion and solidarity.
    2. On a fundamental level, it is an expression of optimism about the destiny of mankind because most religions strongly emphasize the premise that their adherents will reap the benefits of eternal joy. In most cases, optimism enhances the quality of life of most people who display this attitude in abundance. (See Martin Seligman's Learned Optimism, http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimi...arned+Optimism)
    3. Religion provides a comprehensive ethical framework, the basis for conventional morality and even etiquette. Although certain modernized, well-developed societies formally disavowed religion, their collective consciousness has been influenced by doctrines of religious ethics. Had religion not existed at all, it would have been questionable that these societies could have become socially, politically and culturally sophisticated enough to preserve order without any explicit reference to a religious dogma.
    4. The elites of most societies have a vested interest in preserving the ethos of religiosity because most creeds defend a vertical social order that calls for the presence of a hierarchical power-structure and centralized authority. As a general rule, when the elites abolish the institutions of one religion, they swiftly replace them with institutions representing a different creed that serves the same political purpose. Consider how the deeply religious Russian society quickly accepted Marxism-Leninism as its de-facto state religion.
    Last edited by SolitaryWalker; 01-29-2013 at 04:55 PM.

  5. #55
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Well.. if science claims anything, it always gives you the means to reproduce the results. So it's no trick (in some cases, it's impossible to recreate experiments for the layman.. unless you have a multibillion dollar lab and the samples they worked with, but... I'm sure if you "begged" enough, some university might let you observe).
    Moreover, the explanations and supporting data are generally published in the open literature, often including their replication by other research groups. So, one needn't conduct the experiment oneself to be able to learn enough about it to decide whether the results support the conclusions.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #56
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    Not in Europe.
    Yeah really. Even standard figures grossly overestimate the number of religious people since they rely on who has been baptized.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    The only way the two go away (at least, practically speaking) is through oppression and control of all information. I don't think any sane people of either side want that though.

  8. #58
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    E.O Wilson had an interesting answer to this question, he documented it in "On Human Nature". http://www.amazon.com/On-Human-Natur...n+Human+nature

    Religion serves fundamental human needs in the following respects and it often does so more efficiently than alternative institutions.

    1. It provides its practitioners with powerful socio-cultural incentives to preserve group cohesion and solidarity.
    2. On a fundamental level, it is an expression of optimism about the destiny of mankind because most religions strongly emphasize the premise that their adherents will reap the benefits of eternal joy. In most cases, optimism enhances the quality of life of most people who display this attitude in abundance. (See Martin Seligman's Learned Optimism, http://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimi...arned+Optimism)
    3. Religion provides a comprehensive ethical framework, the basis for conventional morality and even etiquette. Although certain modernized, well-developed societies formally disavowed religion, their collective consciousness has been influenced by doctrines of religious ethics. Had religion not existed at all, it would have been questionable that these societies could have become socially, politically and culturally sophisticated enough to preserve order without any explicit reference to a religious dogma.
    4. The elites of most societies have a vested interest in preserving the ethos of religiosity because most creeds defend a horizontal social order that calls for the presence of a hierarchical power-structure and centralized authority. As a general rule, when the elites abolish the institutions of one religion, they swiftly replace them with institutions representing a different creed that serves the same political purpose. Consider how the deeply religious Russian society quickly accepted Marxism-Leninism as its de-facto state religion.
    Yeah, I more or less agree. David Sloan Wilson (an evolutionary biologist and professor of Biological Sciences and Anthropology at Binghamton University) argues something similar in his book The Neighborhood Project: Using Evolution to Improve My City, One Block at a Time. though his focus is not religion as much as it is the evolutionary basis for social cohesion/networks. He also notes that similar benefits can be achieved through other similar organizations such as community organizations (school, work, extracurricular activities programs like sports, fraternal organizations, charitable organizations, etc [note: he does not argue for those specifically, but sees all of them as part of the larger whole of society, the examples were mine]). Personally, I don't see why other similar organizations (therapists instead of confession, joining together for charitable work instead of to sit in a room on a sunday morning, etc) couldn't or shouldn't replace those kinds of activities. I think in time they will, because they will be more beneficial to the individual and the whole.

    Here is an interesting link to an interview he had where he spoke about 7 rules of prosociality that he came up with through observation of wasps and water striders and how they can be used in cities to create richer communities.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Replace religion in what? Most people's lives? All people's lives? Civilization? Law and order? Governments?
    That is a very good question. Basically, I am asking when will we take organized religion as seriously as sacrificing goats to Zeus. You know, scratch that because I am not opposed to groups of people coming together and having abstract experiences that we don't quite understand that might be connecting us to some higher power. In fact, I think stuff like that can be a benefit for many, but I hate namby pamby bullshit religion that is just there to make everyone feel like they're "doing their part" without actually having to do anything worthwhile.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  9. #59
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    That is a very good question. Basically, I am asking when will we take organized religion as seriously as sacrificing goats to Zeus. You know, scratch that because I am not opposed to groups of people coming together and having abstract experiences that we don't quite understand that might be connecting us to some higher power. In fact, I think stuff like that can be a benefit for many, but I hate namby pamby bullshit religion that is just there to make everyone feel like they're "doing their part" without actually having to do anything worthwhile.
    This is the mentality of society--not religion. Apathy is a disease that ravages our world, imo. This happens regardless of religion existing or not.
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  10. #60
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    In fact, I think stuff like that can be a benefit for many, but I hate namby pamby bullshit religion that is just there to make everyone feel like they're "doing their part" without actually having to do anything worthwhile.
    Like I said, religion won't end unless you oppress them. When people take one step further than your sentiment above, and decide they should control and/or meddle with what they hate (the same goes the other way around towards atheists). When they think, "This bugs me so much, I want it out of the world." That's the main idea behind "cultural revolutions" and whatnot.

    If you think people are going to just automatically move towards one path (as if we're all being directed towards some higher state of being), then that's not science either. More like pseudoscience, "transhuman" bullshit. Evolution is always an experiment. It goes down many paths.

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