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  1. #61
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think it depended. In a lot of tribal cultures myths were understood partly to explain/describe actual things, but also to symbolically explain truths.
    True enough, I wasn't very clear on that. The secular non-guiding approach (rationalism or empiricism) is still new, I'd say.

    Note: to reiterate, the question was "how" not "why"; although understanding why is helpful.
    Ah, just to answer this: Because humans are rationalizing creatures, not rational. Ultimately we believe in something then justify. Because of this top-down approach, we get all sorts of inconsistencies in our beliefs. I'd go as far as to say that we are all guilty of this. It's really hard for us to adjust our opinions "rationally" after the fact.

    No false equivalence implied, but given that we are on a board talking about MBTI and Enn, we are not significantly different. Nor is being a skeptical champion any better in this context.

  2. #62
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Ah, just to answer this: Because humans are rationalizing creatures, not rational. Ultimately we believe in something then justify. Because of this top-down approach, we get all sorts of inconsistencies in our beliefs. I'd go as far as to say that we are all guilty of this. It's really hard for us to adjust our opinions "rationally" after the fact.
    I hadn't thought of that! But I'm sure that's most of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    No false equivalence implied, but given that we are on a board talking about MBTI and Enn, we are not significantly different. Nor is being a skeptical champion any better in this context.
    Yeah, fair enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Hi, my name is jon and I believe in God. I don't believe in fairies.

    Wow, that was easy.
    Ok, you're entitled to your opinion. But do you reject the idea as being less rational than the idea of God?
    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Kind of Joseph Campbell's point.. we don't live in a tribal culture now, and therefore lack myth (or lack a grasp on it). His deal was to get people in touch with myths again, but ones that transcended the local/tribal (in his mind, there's no way to get back to the older ones per se. That ship has flown).

    edit: Wait, I mean ship has sailed. I'm watching too much science fiction lately.
    Interesting. I agree, our culture doesn't have myths anymore and that's why it's hard to understand the way of thinking. We (Americans) have Native American mythology, but most people aren't really aware of what it is; that would be a good thing for a lot of people to explore.

  3. #63
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I'm sure some religious folks of the traditional variety probably feel more rational simply because of the force of their history and tradition. It's much easier to feel secure in one's beliefs if people have been believing that shit for a large portion of human history than it is if, say, I decided that I literally believed bite-sized chupacabras came to me in my sleep every night to dictate my dreams, which no one believed...ever.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #64

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    @Peguy Oh yeah. I see it now. And I agree.

  5. #65
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    @greenfairy


    My answer was an incredibly simplified approach to this. My initial reaction to the question you asked was quite thought-provoked. They are both relative absurdities to me, but someone has explained Why belief in God is a more favorable approach than belief in fairies. Fairies do not imply purpose, they could be as natural as any alien species I could think of. God is a bit more superstitious, more supernatural, and implies a general purpose to existence.


    For the record, I don't believe anything that exists has an inherent purpose. Just imitating other's thoughts.

  6. #66
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    @greenfairy


    My answer was an incredibly simplified approach to this. My initial reaction to the question you asked was quite thought-provoked. They are both relative absurdities to me, but someone has explained Why belief in God is a more favorable approach than belief in fairies. Fairies do not imply purpose, they could be as natural as any alien species I could think of. God is a bit more superstitious, more supernatural, and implies a general purpose to existence.


    For the record, I don't believe anything that exists has an inherent purpose. Just imitating other's thoughts.
    Ok, that makes some sense. I know a lot of people subscribe to this way of thinking, that purpose is an underlying principle of reality, or at least necessitates some sort of a cause.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleology
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I don't believe in them (or at least ponder their existence very often) for the same reason that atheists don't (or shouldn't) believe in them; they do not fit within my comprehensive worldview. It has nothing to do with proving or not proving their existence.
    Then you are intellectually consistent.

  7. #67
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleonomy

    Teleology or teleonomy? You decide.

  8. #68
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Isn't the question more like, "How can a rational person believe in fairies?"
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  9. #69
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Fairies, angels, devils and gods come into existence when we suspend our disbelief.

    We suspend our disbelief by letting our critical mind go to sleep for a while and waking up our imaginative mind.

    We suspend our disbelief when our mother reads, "Peter Pan", to us before we go to sleep. And Peter Pan flies in the window.

    We suspend our disbelief when we go to the movies and it all makes sense.

    And we suspend our disbelief when we go to church and worship our god.

    In fact the suspension of disbelief underlies all art, culture and religion.

  10. #70
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Fairies, angels, devils and gods come into existence when we suspend our disbelief.

    We suspend our disbelief by letting our critical mind go to sleep for a while and waking up our imaginative mind.

    We suspend our disbelief when our mother reads, "Peter Pan", to us before we go to sleep. And Peter Pan flies in the window.

    We suspend our disbelief when we go to the movies and it all makes sense.

    And we suspend our disbelief when we go to church and worship our god.

    In fact the suspension of disbelief underlies all art, culture and religion.
    I agree. Although sometimes the critical mind thinks it understands more than it actually does or is capable of.

    This is not a negative or a positive though, just an observation like your own.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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