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  1. #21
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    People aren't rational beings. I think assuming we are is the first error. Then, everything else makes sense.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  2. #22
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    People aren't rational beings. I think assuming we are is the first error.
    I assumed she was asking me, specifically... a rational being.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Why do you believe in an immaterial nonphysical God-being, which can't be observed through scientific investigation, but you dismiss the idea of (mostly) immaterial, (mostly) nonphysical nature spirits called fairies which can't be observed through scientific investigation?

    Kind of a rhetorical question, but if there's some logical justification in your mind please state it.

    If I say I believe in fairies can you prove me wrong? Can I employ those same methods to prove you wrong?
    All suppositions that lack scientific proof are not equal. Just because you believe one thing that hasn't been proven doesn't mean you have to believe everything that hasn't been proven. Do you think everyone that believes in ghosts should have to also believe in leprechauns? Should everyone that believes in clairvoyance also have to believe in the Loch Ness Monster?

    You're correct that I can't prove you wrong, but that isn't the same thing as believing it myself. Maybe I don't understand your question, because this seems obvious to me.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    You're correct that I can't prove you wrong, but that isn't the same thing as believing it myself. Maybe I don't understand your question, because this seems obvious to me.
    Of course, if you can't prove it wrong, there is always the argument that there was nothing to disprove in the first place, therefore rendering it impossible to prove wrong!

  5. #25
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    "How can a rational person be theistic and not believe in fairies?" says the fairy.

    Experiencing a bit of existential angst, are we?

  6. #26
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Depends on how you define mythical creatures. If you mean mythical as being created in human minds as part of myth, then many would argue that God fits that description. It's kind of begging the question. But you might be on to something depending on how you frame it. I'd be interested in further explanation. I'm familiar with Descartes's ontological argument. Although I'm still not sure this holds because someone could conceivably attribute all those properties to fairies.

    Good, getting closer.

    Edit: Interesting fact- for the early Irish many gods were fairies.
    If you define God to have the same properties as Fairies, then they are equivalent regardless of the qualities being described. For instance, if you say that God created all and say that Fairies did as well, then they are equivalent in nature. However, I read your argument as a knowledge argument; believing on faith, which results in all beliefs that derive themselves from the same rules as equal (/equally valid/likely).

    First Cause, or the cosmological argument, is a foundation for believing in something in which the belief is deduced, making it different than believing in mythical constructs in a social sense (taught belief, supernatural). That is, if someone believes in God as defined by the cosmological argument, their view is not equal to a belief in Fairies that has no logical induction. Of course, this isn't grounds to say that the cosmological argument is correct, only that the fallacies and structure of the argument are very different.

    Let me put forth an example that is more modern. I'm a creationist; I believe in the simulated reality theory. The nature of the belief, the foundation of knowledge, make my conversation with a young earth creationist virtually impossible. They are not equal beliefs, even if ultimately they have a common bond.

    You ask why people can believe in one thing but not another. People may be inconsistent, but there is also multiple ways to deduce a position. The outcome does not state the probability of truth (truth being true/false; certainty being variable).

  7. #27
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post

    No. Like I said, we apply within the universe, the laws of science which we know to govern it internally.

    However these laws by definition cannot explain the existence itself of the universe, as shown by quantum physics.
    I don't understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    I hope you are making a point for atheism rather than actually arguing the existence of fairies, lol.
    Why not? If you honestly think theism is less silly than belief in fairies help me understand this. For the record I'm atheist and polytheist at the same time, and I justify my belief in fairies and nature spirits the same way as deities, because I think they are the same sorts of beings.
    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    "How can a rational person be theistic and not believe in fairies?" says the fairy.

    Experiencing a bit of existential angst, are we?

  8. #28
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    People aren't rational beings.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    All suppositions that lack scientific proof are not equal.
    +1
    -end of thread-

  9. #29
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Define faeries.


    Anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    You're asking people to justify beliefs? How about if they brandished an axe and stated "Because I said so." That's the best option.

    There's no way to justify a belief. All anyone can do here is talk about motivations. Not justification. If there was a way to prove it, then it wouldn't be a belief.
    'Truth' is a justified belief.

    If there's a way to prove something then it is a justified belief. Would it make any sense to say "This is true, but I don't believe it."

    No.

  10. #30
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    People aren't rational beings.
    Well I think I'm a rational creature. If you don't want to be that's fine with me. I use reason consistently in my life and include religious matters. I don't see why they are some special exception. I may have mystical beliefs, but they don't contradict the use of reason. I guess I'm more of a rational than the NT's in this thread.

    Unless you want to provide your reasoning for the existence of God, and how it is different than possible arguments in favor of the existence of fairies.

    What most of you are saying is that an unscientifically justifiable belief is fine with you if it makes you feel good.

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