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  1. #51
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I never thought as emotions as being 'bad' myself.

    Annoying, yeah. Frustrating at times, sure. Sometimes in the way, of course. But never bad.

    The difference between feelers and thinkers, is that when thinkers experience emotions they tend to be much rawer and immature. Simply because they never face the consequences of their emotions by focusing on their rationality. Whilest feelers, who do face the concequences of their emotions, end up with much more well-rounded emotions that can deal with many a situation maturely.

    Problems only tend to arise when thinkers attempt to ignore to rationality and let their emotions run their course or vice versa.
    I can't think of them as bad either but there are times when I do wish they "go away" and leave me in peace. It would be particularly nice when I experience the emotional equivalent of an ear-worm.

    And definitely a yes on letting emotions run my course. It never goes well when my emotions are running high and then I impulsively act on them. I marvel and often envy the way F-pref navigate things.

  2. #52
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yes, I think so.

    I'm thinkin' we should write a book...or two...together.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  3. #53
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I'm thinkin' we should write a book...or two...together.
    I'm not very good at writing. At least not when I intend to do it...

  4. #54
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I'm not either. But I could probably write half a book...
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  5. #55
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Emotions are so bad because they are women's work.

    And being women's work, they are naturally devalued, just as women are devalued.

    But we are slowly waking up as in the post below -

    "Just as the work of children is play, so women do the emotional work.

    And just as the purpose of play is to learn the difference between imagination and reality, so the purpose of women's work is the well being of the family.

    We only have to read the threads on Central to find pages of etext doing the emotional work of women. And how well women do this work, with what skill, and with passion, knowing how important the emotional work of women is to the well being of the family.

    Of course women have been training to do this work since they were little girls, and in their mother they had a superb role model.

    All this goes some way to explaining women's attraction to astrology, mbti and religion. For astrology, mbti and religion are tools in women's work.

    Astrology, mbti and religion are not based on evidence and reason but they are sophisticated, tried and true ways of modulating emotion. And they are fine tuned in the hands of women as any musical instrument".

  6. #56
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Emotions are so bad because they are women's work.

    And being women's work, they are naturally devalued, just as women are devalued
    It's the chicken and the egg all over again. Are emotions devalued because of the association with women, or was emotional activity relegated to women because it had already been devalued???

    We had the opposite of this question on some thread about workplace gender bias: namely whether T-like skills are valued because we associate them with men, or whether we consider them masculine because they are valued.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #57
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So you are saying kind of the opposite of what I was saying? That feelings/thoughts are deeper than ego and emotion is expression of ego?

    I'll have to ponder it. I think since feelings and thoughts are conscious-minded phenomena they are not of the unconscious. I see ego as sort-of the gatekeeper between the conscious and unconscious allowing only certain things through that will not rock the boat too much. But what happens to everything else? It manifests as emotion that really might not seem connected to anything (but is, we just often cannot know what).

    This all seems very clear to me, this explanation. And ego isn't always the bad guy. Ego also, as I pointed out in an earlier post, keeps us human versus animalistic. IF we had no ego whatsoever and could live solely on the basis of raw emotion, responding to it, and being informed by it always, then we'd live like an animal. So it's like we do need ego to filter emotion and keep our human traits (like thinking and feeling) but ego must not become a blockade.
    Imo

    Feeling and thinking are separate from ego, but ego starts to let aspects of each in more easily as it gets used to that sort of information and continues to reject the other(developing/differentiating the other function basically means to make ego accept this new type of information more readily), thats basically where differences in type come in. Ego grows as it learns to let in stuff, if it learns to prefer thinking much more over feeling, then it grows according to thinking more, making ego more thinking orientated.

    When it comes to feeling and ego, i think there are few components to what makes up feeling. First off there is the personal unconscious and its structures, complexes(feeling toned associations around a common theme). When a complex gets activated it makes a feeling toned associations to things that are also connected to that complex and creates this bias towards the subject(based on other things associated to the complex) that originally triggered it. When it comes to more differentiated feeling, it is when you are able to consciously make judgments by weighting these feelings that rise from your perceptions(internal or external, dont confuse with I/E), undifferentiated feeling just comes raw through intuition. Anyways, when these complexes gets triggered, its not something you can consciously review, what comes to your consciousness in a form of emotion is the response of your ego to these feelings that were triggered. This is also the reason why i think undifferentiated feeling often leads to mixed feelings about things, your unconscious mind says this is good through intuition very strongly, but it conflicts what ego would prefer since it prefers thinking(or the other way around).

    And yea, i dont think ego is a bad guy, but it doesent always want whats actually good for us, it just wants to do what its used to doing and wants to preserve things as they are, so sometimes it causes trouble and needs a little whipping to be able to move on and learn to grow out of its comfort zone.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #58
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I agree with your post for the most part. But I outline below where I have a different opinion, for the sake of argument, and to progress this concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Imo

    Feeling and thinking are separate from ego, but ego starts to let aspects of each in more easily as it gets used to that sort of information and continues to reject the other(developing/differentiating the other function basically means to make ego accept this new type of information more readily), thats basically where differences in type come in. Ego grows as it learns to let in stuff, if it learns to prefer thinking much more over feeling, then it grows according to thinking more, making ego more thinking orientated.
    I believe ego only 'lets in' what become beliefs and values and 'truths' etc. If I could make a conceptual model on the computer, it would look like a surrounding shell over the top 3/4 of it which represents the world, where we accumulate our perceptions and data (with the 1/4 bottom part anchored to the 'other side', which is where God and the life force resides), so we are seemingly more 'in the world' while alive than attached to the other side, which is actually a mis-perception, but one that seems real. Moving on.....

    Actions and intentions are on the very top. Then thoughts and feelings are immediately below these, interacting with them, these are superficial too, even though they may feel deep because sometimes we have to search to figure them out. Ego exists in the middle zone. Ego uses our environment (this is a 3D model) and thoughts and feelings and experiences to lay in beliefs and values which makes the middle layer, which serves as a sort of barrier, along with the whole ego zone. When our thoughts and feelings conflict or coincide with our beliefs and values, actions are the outcome, whether active or passive. This also explains why, to change our behaviors (actions/intentions), we truly need to change our beliefs, which then changes our thoughts and feelings, then our actions naturally change.

    Below the ego zone is our unconscious. In this lies our core and below this our soul.

    I'd make this in some graphic program but don't want to take time to do that.

    When it comes to feeling and ego, i think there are few components to what makes up feeling. First off there is the personal unconscious and its structures, complexes(feeling toned associations around a common theme). When a complex gets activated it makes a feeling toned associations to things that are also connected to that complex and creates this bias towards the subject(based on other things associated to the complex) that originally triggered it.
    YES! Well said. This is what I'm calling a belief.

    When it comes to more differentiated feeling, it is when you are able to consciously make judgments by weighting these feelings that rise from your perceptions(internal or external, dont confuse with I/E), undifferentiated feeling just comes raw through intuition. Anyways, when these complexes gets triggered, its not something you can consciously review, what comes to your consciousness in a form of emotion is the response of your ego to these feelings that were triggered. This is also the reason why i think undifferentiated feeling often leads to mixed feelings about things, your unconscious mind says this is good through intuition very strongly, but it conflicts what ego would prefer since it prefers thinking(or the other way around).
    Or, differentiated functions might just be those that are used often, so often dip down into our ego zone, that those pathways get very well used and cannot help but become efficient at knowing what our ego believes and what our mind/body/heart are used to. The good side is that it makes us efficient and useful, but the bad side is that we can get stuck in a rut using the same functions to tell us the same information, instead of using undifferentiated functions or challenging ego.

    And all this constitutes our world, but when you look at it, it's just the most superficial half of our world!!! We build our lives upon it as if it is our foundation, but it isn't. We can't even see that it's our deep-seated beliefs that drive us, much less the deeper unconscious and, finally, soul. Which is probably why LOVE is so powerful an emotion. THE most powerful emotion. Because it is the closest emotion to God.

    And yea, i dont think ego is a bad guy, but it doesent always want whats actually good for us, it just wants to do what its used to doing and wants to preserve things as they are, so sometimes it causes trouble and needs a little whipping to be able to move on and learn to grow out of its comfort zone.
    Yeah. It's our functional foundation. We just could stand to remember that at some point, what we are standing on might need to be readjusted or reconstructed if we start getting warnings from our emotions that we are off, or that we need a more spiritual foundation to feel fulfilled.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #59
    Kultainen Kuningas Devil Flamingo's Avatar
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    Emotions? Bad? Nahhh, they not. They can be incovenient, and messy and destructive, but never bad.

    That's like saying Fi is bad. No it's not. Fi is wonderful. I love Fi. Fi is sooo much better than her stupid sister Fe and her stupid raggedy-ass weave.



    Just because y'all can't understand/deal with your own emotions doesn't mean they're wrong.
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    ava nyt aittasi avara, luinen lukko lonkahuta!

  10. #60
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It's the chicken and the egg all over again. Are emotions devalued because of the association with women, or was emotional activity relegated to women because it had already been devalued???

    We had the opposite of this question on some thread about workplace gender bias: namely whether T-like skills are valued because we associate them with men, or whether we consider them masculine because they are valued.
    T-like skills are probably valued because they can be useful for order, but a need for order is ultimately ruled by emotion.

    Things are so ruled by emotion that the one thing which accomplishes nothing - apathy - stands out as being exceptional. Even the most die hard thinker can't really be entirely apathetic about it, otherwise they wouldn't bother in the first place.

    I'd daresay that the ones who do the hardest thinking are highly invested in strict emotions.

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