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  1. #31
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    of course, thanking someone genuinely for helping you out, or apologizing to someone in a heartfelt manner after screwing them over are a completely DIFFERENT kettle of fish... those are essential emotional expressions that even the most unemotional person should get a grasp of in order to live effectively in society
    Why? Why are the words themselves not enough, or better yet, the actions one takes to make things right, or do something helpful for the other person? Emoting seems to have little value added on top of these.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    those are essential emotional expressions that even the most unemotional person should get a grasp of in order to live effectively in society
    If you want to live effectively in an exploitive society based on propaganda, we need to make the essential emotional expressions. MBTI will help us live effectively in such a society.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yet you emote, do you not?

    Anyway. Yes, the case actually is that you can train yourself to not outburst. I'd say that this training is the exception that proves the rule.


    If you take a tree and make it into a table, it was still at one point a tree.
    Perhaps, and a baby and an adult are both human beings but obviously very different.

    The training that I talked about was very interesting but it takes with one person and does not with another, I put that down to underpinning, pre-existing character traits, I would not say that one is more in tune with a "natural" state of being and the other is not but they have developed differently and I do think of it in developmental and growth terms.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    From one perspective: They're great when we use them as guiding signals. They're not so great when we're conditioned to assign causes to them in a useless way--that is, when we take them too far or when we attribute the wrong causes to them.

    For example, that whole "fight or flight" deal is more useful when it's actually triggered by some short-term stimuli that we can take or leave, rather than by some long-term, sustained, or complex situation.
    I do like the "signals" theorising about affect regulation, although what if you are, by all accounts, capable of perceiving and responding to signals in others but they are not? What if you possess insight and the other does not?

    I've met a lot of people who are a particular character which should handicap or imped their interaction with others under normal circumstances but who fall in with people willing to over look their character for one reason or another, perhaps believing they can not do better or prefering the path of least resistance when dealing with others.

    Those people can create cultures or norms surrounding themselves, in their workplaces or households or neighbourhoods which subvert or substitute for signals, social classes, status groups, subcultures and professions all do this. When inevitably conflicts arise it is reason which most people fall back upon or the objective appraisal of third parties rather than feelings or signals.

  5. #35
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Why? Why are the words themselves not enough, or better yet, the actions one takes to make things right, or do something helpful for the other person? Emoting seems to have little value added on top of these.
    whether or not an individual feels the need to emote while expressing these emotions, society deems that they should as a general thing, so if they want to live effectively in society they should probably learn to play nicely

    for instance, funerals don't really make me sad most of the time... the person's already dead and in some cases they're not even sad about it... I look sad or at least pretty damned solemn the entire time I'm there though, because some things are nice to do, and sometimes it's nice to do nice things
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #36
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    They tell you when something is wrong even if a person tries to be in complete denial about them. Other than that, I find them annoying and feel ashamed when I get too caught up in them.

  7. #37
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I've met a lot of people who are a particular character which should handicap or imped their interaction with others under normal circumstances but who fall in with people willing to over look their character for one reason or another, perhaps believing they can not do better or prefering the path of least resistance when dealing with others.

    Those people can create cultures or norms surrounding themselves, in their workplaces or households or neighbourhoods which subvert or substitute for signals, social classes, status groups, subcultures and professions all do this. When inevitably conflicts arise it is reason which most people fall back upon or the objective appraisal of third parties rather than feelings or signals.
    Can you be more specific about this? What particular kind of character are you describing? What do you mean by creating "cultures or norms surrounding themselves, in their workplaces or households or neighbourhoods which subvert or substitute for signals"? Are you referring to things like workplace customs or professional jargon, or something deeper?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #38
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Here's a post on another forum arguing that emotion is an essential part of our minds:

    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...8&postcount=13

    Nope. There are people who suffer the loss of one or all emotions due to brain damage or birth defects and that isn't what happens. For one thing, they don't care about their own best self interest; that too is an emotional impulse. Without emotion they care about gratifying their senses since that's all they have left as a motivation; and they don't care about the future consequences to themselves or anything else. They'll spend all the money they have on food, liquor, drugs & prostitutes because those things feel good right now, even if they know that they are going to run out of money in the future, since they aren't capable of caring about the future. They can't even win a game; they can tell you how to win if asked, but they themselves will just fiddle around aimlessly since they don't care if they win or lose. Interestingly, they also tend to get stuck in "loops" oscillating between several choices; unlike a normal person they just keep going round and round until hunger or some external influence breaks them out of the loop since they don't get frustrated.

    Now, a high functioning psychopath might act like you describe; but they still have some emotions, they are just all self interested ones.

    Human minds ultimately are built with the "design assumption" that emotions are part of the reasoning process; without emotions our minds are crippled. Some artificial intelligence built from scratch might be able to get by on pure intellect, with the functions we use emotions for replaced by some form of reasoning; but we can't.

    (Emphasis mine.) I wish the poster had supplied a cite, but his argument makes sense to me.

    Emotions: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em? Or is it simply can't live without 'em?

  9. #39
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I never thought as emotions as being 'bad' myself.

    Annoying, yeah. Frustrating at times, sure. Sometimes in the way, of course. But never bad.

    The difference between feelers and thinkers, is that when thinkers experience emotions they tend to be much rawer and immature. Simply because they never face the consequences of their emotions by focusing on their rationality. Whilest feelers, who do face the concequences of their emotions, end up with much more well-rounded emotions that can deal with many a situation maturely.

    Problems only tend to arise when thinkers attempt to ignore to rationality and let their emotions run their course or vice versa.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #40
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    I enjoy emotions. I see it as "filling the container" and the more I have the more I have to feast on. Heck, even when I'm in agony from suicidal thoughts part of me is enjoying every second of it, it sees it as a euphoric all you can eat buffet. It loves the sickly feeling of having suicide desire and intense despair running through my head, its delicious. There is a hunger in me and it can only be sated (just barely) by emotion.

    Addendum: I think there may be something seriously wrong with me after reading the above.

    As for society: It deems emotion bad because it feels it clouds reason. I would agree with this statement, whim supercedes plans and the pros and cons are not properly weighed. There is also a little issue that most people cannot understand emotion or when it occurs be incapable of controlling it. Thats bound to have it blacklisted.

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