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  1. #21
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Nawh, I dont agree, that "hydrolic" or "pressure valve" analogy for human nature, or even animal nature since it was popular with Konrad Lorenz, I think is seriously mistaken.

    In its place I'd substitute some character theory or analytical theory, obviously the tendencies to emoting and capacity for self-regulation of affect will be a consequence of chacteroogy, or if you like typology, to the point were some people will need to emote and others will not.
    It may not be true for all but it is true. I don't see how one can say with a straight face that it is not.

    Are you telling me that you have never suffered an annoying thing, and said "don't react to this, it's not worth it" then it comes again but is a bit more annoying to you this time, but yet again you say "don't react to this, it's not worth it".

    Don't you ever just progressively get sick of something, to the point where your final reaction is greater than what your initial discomfort warranted? It doesn't even have to be a full blow up, just an increased annoyance would prove the rule.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    It may not be true for all but it is true. I don't see how one can say with a straight face that it is not.

    Are you telling me that you have never suffered an annoying thing, and said "don't react to this, it's not worth it" then it comes again but is a bit more annoying to you this time, but yet again you say "don't react to this, it's not worth it".

    Don't you ever just progressively get sick of something, to the point where your final reaction is greater than what your initial discomfort warranted? It doesn't even have to be a full blow up, just an increased annoyance would prove the rule.
    No, I'm not saying that I've not experienced that ever but I can honestly say that I've been trained, pretty successfully and its not simply "its not worth it" so that I dont react in the typical outburst manner, or deferred outburst, mainly through insights into what is going on there and making a conscious choice.

    So it cant be intrinsically true, this being the case.

    I'm not as articulate as the sources I've read on this, I just know that the old hydrolic notion, which I thought was persuasive for a long time isnt persuasive to me anymore knowing what I do now.

  3. #23
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    No, I'm not saying that I've not experienced that ever but I can honestly say that I've been trained, pretty successfully and its not simply "its not worth it" so that I dont react in the typical outburst manner, or deferred outburst, mainly through insights into what is going on there and making a conscious choice.
    Yet you emote, do you not?

    Anyway. Yes, the case actually is that you can train yourself to not outburst. I'd say that this training is the exception that proves the rule.

    So it cant be intrinsically true, this being the case.
    If you take a tree and make it into a table, it was still at one point a tree.

  4. #24
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    I've just realized that ego can also use perceptions and intuitions as well as thoughts and feelings for its purposes of maintaining the status quo and equilibrium of the self.

    Meaning that not just thoughts and feelings can be skewed, but that perceptions and intuition can be skewed too. Hardest is when our dominant function is used by ego to perpetuate a false ideology that is not in sync with the psyche.

    An example of each function gone awry by ego's influence might be:

    feeling: If I am honest, I will hurt their feelings and that is bad.

    thinking: If I am honest, this will happen and then that will happen and I know I do not want that.

    perception: I see what will keep my worldview intact (like a vision of an angel or ufo or spirit)

    intuition: I know what will keep my worldview intact (like leaps of faith that have no objective basis in fact whatsoever)



    So MBTI/JCF and enneagram (being about the ego) teach us about ourselves, but do so in a superficial realm. Enneagram is a bit 'deeper' and judgmental (allowing for the ability to make judgments about how we are existing) because ego is the tool our minds use to manipulate data, brought to us by our cognitive functions. Cognitive functions are simply the building blocks that make us us.


    All of it is superficial to emotion and the unconscious however. If we can tap into our unconscious self (through meditation, contemplation, ministry) then we are doing a lot more for growth than any amount of philosophizing here. :P
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  5. #25
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @AphroditeGoneAwry

    Yes, I think so.

  6. #26
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    From one perspective: They're great when we use them as guiding signals. They're not so great when we're conditioned to assign causes to them in a useless way--that is, when we take them too far or when we attribute the wrong causes to them.

    For example, that whole "fight or flight" deal is more useful when it's actually triggered by some short-term stimuli that we can take or leave, rather than by some long-term, sustained, or complex situation.

  7. #27
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    From one perspective: They're great when we use them as guiding signals. They're not so great when we're conditioned to assign causes to them in a useless way--that is, when we take them too far or when we attribute the wrong causes to them.

    For example, that whole "fight or flight" deal is more useful when it's actually triggered by some short-term stimuli that we can take or leave, rather than by some long-term, sustained, or complex situation.
    Very true. This is why when I react adversely I come to look at it later on and usually come to find that it was entirely unnecessary.

    I'm actually really self aware and self critical - I just need to be less post mortem about it. It's something I'm working on.

  8. #28
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Emotional restraint is a sign of intelligence, so no wonder the New Age encourages us to express our emotions because the New Age targets the unintelligent.

  9. #29
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    The whole t/f dichotomy is a bunch of bull. This seems structures in the prefrontal cortex which deal with morality also deal with increased executive function, higher order mathematical abilities, etc. The idea that emotions cloud reason is a holdover from cultural crap going back to Plato
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #30
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    Because they can make you want to die without killing you.

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