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  1. #1
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Default What would need to be true to make what you believe false?

    This is not necessarily something you need to answer publicly if it makes your uncomfortable, but @Ism 's thread got me thinking about questions and answers.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #2
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Are you struggling with something in particular?


    It will just keep being a recurrent issue in my life, or thought I'm having. It will keep nagging at me. I will start trying to find the truth on my own, but if I cannot, I generally turn to others for input until I have enough opinions that it helps me to refine mine.

    For one example: I used to think incest was gross (like everyone prolly does), but I think it's not disgusting anymore, as long as it's between adults and not in my family. It took me a while to figure that out though. I believed in Jesus for a while--that he was God--but the truth pervaded because I just could not suspend my disbelief anymore. I believe in God and that he is the 3O's, but I could even change my belief on that over time...perhaps come to see God as less anthropomorphic and more universal? Stuff like that.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member pv255's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    This is not necessarily something you need to answer publicly if it makes your uncomfortable, but @Ism 's thread got me thinking about questions and answers.
    I think about this ALL the time. What, where, when, how do people prove something to themselves?
    For me logic + observations.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I dont understand the question and stuff.

  5. #5
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont understand the question and stuff.
    You have a lot of thoughts that run in your head. Others have thoughts that run oppositely. Both imo are formed by patterns within experience that arose different thoughts. So, what are the experiences that they have had that make your thoughts impossible? Perhaps they have knowledge that you do not have, etc.

    Another way of looking at the question is more existential. If you had a belief and that belief was contradicted, would you stop believing it. Under what conditions would you lose that belief? These can be active beliefs that you keep in your mind daily or passive beliefs that you have that you're not even aware that you have. So what would need to happen so you no longer believed in X? (X can be anything.)
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  6. #6
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    That the puddle is diveable.

  7. #7
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    well... evidence .. of course.

    Information, statistics would be nice. I can believe several seemingly opposite things at once so it's not a huge leap. Maybe if i have some concrete example.

    Now seeing things from different perspectives and open ended (new evidence can arise, situations can change etc.) and 'truths' as mental tools to interpret 'the world' (again, a mental tool too) means my beliefs are pretty fuzzy to begin with.

    I hold stronger beliefs in structures rather than what they describe (Ti), but in face of information I can accept that this structure doesn't fit the 'situation'.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    If I see X disproven over and over again, I will come to disbelieve in X no matter what anybody says, no matter how much anybody prove X on paper. If X = fail in my life, I don't care what you say, X = fail. I reserve the right of my own lexicon. I think what I do believe in is alternate universes. Maybe that we each are one. So X can be true for you and false for me at the same time. I don't have a problem with that.

  9. #9
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    well... evidence .. of course.

    Information, statistics would be nice. I can believe several seemingly opposite things at once so it's not a huge leap. Maybe if i have some concrete example.

    Now seeing things from different perspectives and open ended (new evidence can arise, situations can change etc.) and 'truths' as mental tools to interpret 'the world' (again, a mental tool too) means my beliefs are pretty fuzzy to begin with.

    I hold stronger beliefs in structures rather than what they describe (Ti), but in face of information I can accept that this structure doesn't fit the 'situation'.
    I meant the question to be more specific and less theoretical. What is a belief that you have that may be false that you do not accept because it contradicts assumptions you have about yourself, reality, other people/things, etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    If I see X disproven over and over again, I will come to disbelieve in X no matter what anybody says, no matter how much anybody prove X on paper. If X = fail in my life, I don't care what you say, X = fail. I reserve the right of my own lexicon. I think what I do believe in is alternate universes. Maybe that we each are one. So X can be true for you and false for me at the same time. I don't have a problem with that.
    There are things which are disproven again and again which still turn out to be true, but because we lack a way of evaluating them in another context they elude us. For example, there were many experiments proving light to act like a particle (and thus according to the thinking of the time NOT like a wave) until Huygens found a way to interpret previous experiments in a way that still allowed light to be thought of as a wave theoretically which was later corroborated by Young and Fresnel with the double-slit experiment. How can you apply this principle to find "deeper" patterns within phenomena that you experience that might contradict the current belief you have of them?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #10
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I meant the question to be more specific and less theoretical. What is a belief that you have that may be false that you do not accept because it contradicts assumptions you have about yourself, reality, other people/things, etc?
    Contradicts? Define contradict?
    if it contradicts 'reality' whatever that is, why would I hold this belief. Also its like a pantheon, a statistical spread of 'beliefs' I'd go 'down' on the pile, but if there is also evidence 'for it' I'll always sometimes consider it as part of the solution pool. (if i think of it)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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