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  1. #1
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Default Aphrodite and You on Siddhartha Gautama Buddha~

    So, in continuing my quest for the Ultimate Truth, I'm now looking into the prophet Buddha.

    This, from Wiki:

    Some of the fundamentals of the teachings attributed to Gautama Buddha are:

    • The Four Noble Truths: that suffering is an ingrained part of existence; that the origin of suffering is craving for sensuality, acquisition of identity, and annihilation; that suffering can be ended; and that following the Noble Eightfold Path is the means to accomplish this;
    • The Noble Eightfold Path: right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration;
    • Dependent origination: the mind creates suffering as a natural product of a complex process;
    • Rejection of the infallibility of accepted scripture: Teachings should not be accepted unless they are borne out by our experience and are praised by the wise. See the Kalama Sutta for details;
    • Anicca (Sanskrit: anitya): That all things that come to be have an end;
    • Dukkha (Sanskrit: duḥkha): That nothing which comes to be is ultimately satisfying;
    • Anattā (Sanskrit: anātman): That nothing in the realm of experience can really be said to be "I" or "mine";
    • Nibbāna (Sanskrit: Nirvāna): It is possible for sentient beings to realize a dimension of awareness which is totally unconstructed and peaceful, and end all suffering due to the mind's interaction with the conditioned world.



    So, to give a brief synopsis about what I believe regarding this, I will remark in Red:

    Some of the fundamentals of the teachings attributed to Gautama Buddha are:

    • The Four Noble Truths: that suffering is an ingrained part of existence; that the origin of suffering is craving for sensuality, acquisition of identity, and annihilation; that suffering can be ended; and that following the Noble Eightfold Path is the means to accomplish this;


    Suffering IS a part of existence. But the origin of suffering is NOT craving for sensuality. The origin of suffering is a simple fact of being human in a material body and mind.




    • The Noble Eightfold Path: right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration;


    Sounds like a version of the 10 Commandments, but I honestly like the 10 Commandments better because they are more clear. These are too open for interpretation by someone who could be led astray.



    • Dependent origination: the mind creates suffering as a natural product of a complex process;
    • The mind doesn't create suffering. Suffering is a given being a life form. Animals suffer, plants suffer. All life has the capability of suffering.



    • Rejection of the infallibility of accepted scripture: Teachings should not be accepted unless they are borne out by our experience and are praised by the wise. See the Kalama Sutta for details;


    This is probably the coolest thing here. I like this. Looking to the collective to know if we are on track.



    • Anicca (Sanskrit: anitya): That all things that come to be have an end;
    • Perhaps. Perhaps not. I'm not vibing with this too much, as it's too cut and dried for me.


    • Dukkha (Sanskrit: duḥkha): That nothing which comes to be is ultimately satisfying;
    • It is satisfying, but only for the short term. Then we will seek something else to make us happy. I like my construct of contentedness/happiness as it relates to soul/mind-body much more.


    • Anattā (Sanskrit: anātman): That nothing in the realm of experience can really be said to be "I" or "mine";


    Not following too much here. Unless he is speaking about Truth and God. I think truth should never be hidden, just as the bible says as well.



    • Nibbāna (Sanskrit: Nirvāna): It is possible for sentient beings to realize a dimension of awareness which is totally unconstructed and peaceful, and end all suffering due to the mind's interaction with the conditioned world.
    • Yes. This is where contentedness lies. Being connected to the Divine (God) in your innermost soul space. But because we are here in this world, we cannot know unlimited contentedness, though we can get better and better at it, with practice.




    It's ambiguous whether Buddha believed in God, per se. I think saying The Divine regarding him might be most accurate. Though The Divine usually means, to others, of God.



    Overall, I dig it. I think maybe Jesus' words and the bible holds more meaning for me, and direction, than this. But I'm sure others have embellished Buddhism just as others embellished Christianity, with the bible.




    Thoughts????
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  2. #2
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Not following too much here. Unless he is speaking about Truth and God. I think truth should never be hidden, just as the bible says as well.

    Thoughts????
    This might give you an insight into what is meant: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Immortality:_A_Dialogue

    Schopenhauer (yeah, I'm a fan) wrote this dialogue on the immortality of the soul, and it deals with the concept of 'I'.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

    Schopenhauer

  3. #3
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    My thoughts are that it's among the best frameworks out there--that it's one of the most practical and insightful.


    Searching for truth from multiple sources is a great approach. I figure that, while individual prescriptions from different perspectives might not be infallible, surely their points of intersection are at least 'on to something.'

    In short, I agree with
    This is probably the coolest thing here. I like this. Looking to the collective to know if we are on track.
    on all counts.

  4. #4
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    • Rejection of the infallibility of accepted scripture: Teachings should not be accepted unless they are borne out by our experience and are praised by the wise. See the Kalama Sutta for details;


    This is probably the coolest thing here. I like this. Looking to the collective to know if we are on track.



    I like what Pema Chodron says about this. I'm not willing to look it up to get a specific quote just now, but I believe it's something like: an important distinction that helps sort out what to keep/accept a teaching is 'Does it bring aggression into the world?'
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  5. #5
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    @AphroditeGoneAwry

    re: suffering:

    It doesn't mean suffering in the way most think it means. Remember that this wasn't originally written in English.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha

    Inherited suffering:
    Birth: the discomfort of birth and experiencing the world for the first time; and the discomfort of relating to new demands or experiences.
    Old age: the discomfort involved in the process of aging and growing old; this can apply to psychological as well as physical discomfort of aging.
    Sickness: the discomfort of physical or psychological illness.
    Death: includes the pain of separation and not being able to continue on in your endeavors, as well as the physical discomfort of dying.

    Suffering between the periods of birth and death:
    Getting what you don't want: being unable to avoid difficult or painful situations.
    Not being able to hold onto what is desirable: the pain of trying to hold onto what is desirable, lovely, splendid, terrific.
    Not getting what you do want: this underlies the previous two categories; the anxiety of not getting what you want.

    General misery:
    All-pervasive suffering: a very subtle dissatisfaction that exists all the time; it arises as a reaction to the qualities of conditioned things (e.g. the impermanence of things).


    Some of these you can't do anything about, but you can change your acceptance and integration, so in a way it's up to you if you actually consider it to be suffering or not. The rest, definitely are 'all you' - if you didn't have the attachments, you wouldn't suffer them.

  6. #6
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    A rather poignant view on suffering IMO


  7. #7
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @AphroditeGoneAwry

    re: suffering:

    It doesn't mean suffering in the way most think it means. Remember that this wasn't originally written in English.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha

    Inherited suffering:
    Birth: the discomfort of birth and experiencing the world for the first time; and the discomfort of relating to new demands or experiences.
    Old age: the discomfort involved in the process of aging and growing old; this can apply to psychological as well as physical discomfort of aging.
    Sickness: the discomfort of physical or psychological illness.
    Death: includes the pain of separation and not being able to continue on in your endeavors, as well as the physical discomfort of dying.

    Suffering between the periods of birth and death:
    Getting what you don't want: being unable to avoid difficult or painful situations.
    Not being able to hold onto what is desirable: the pain of trying to hold onto what is desirable, lovely, splendid, terrific.
    Not getting what you do want: this underlies the previous two categories; the anxiety of not getting what you want.

    General misery:
    All-pervasive suffering: a very subtle dissatisfaction that exists all the time; it arises as a reaction to the qualities of conditioned things (e.g. the impermanence of things).


    Some of these you can't do anything about, but you can change your acceptance and integration, so in a way it's up to you if you actually consider it to be suffering or not. The rest, definitely are 'all you' - if you didn't have the attachments, you wouldn't suffer them.
    Thanks for the descriptions. I just disagree with what I've perceived as 'Buddhist teachings' in the past (whether they were actually from The Buddha, I don't know, but I would assume so) that we should detach from everything, so that we don't have desire, so that we don't suffer. Not everyone can go live by themselves for years at a time. Especially mothers. And fathers, though he did. No where in the bible does it say it's holy or good to be silent and withdrawn. No, we are made to be together, and that implies that we should not detach. Yet when we let go of our own ego, it is easier to adapt to others in a healthy way. I had the consciousness this past few months, that in order to forego some of the pain associated with living and loving others, I needed to annihilate my ego and be filled simply and purely with God's love and will for me. This was the closest I have come to what others might call a zen state. Besides when I am just in a relaxed, meditative moment.

    So, ironically, it's not when we detach from others that makes living with others less painful, it's when we detach from ourselves-and our ego fixations-that makes all the difference...
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #8
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Thanks for the descriptions. I just disagree with what I've perceived as 'Buddhist teachings' in the past (whether they were actually from The Buddha, I don't know, but I would assume so) that we should detach from everything, so that we don't have desire, so that we don't suffer. Not everyone can go live by themselves for years at a time. Especially mothers. And fathers, though he did. No where in the bible does it say it's holy or good to be silent and withdrawn. No, we are made to be together, and that implies that we should not detach. Yet when we let go of our own ego, it is easier to adapt to others in a healthy way. I had the consciousness this past few months, that in order to forego some of the pain associated with living and loving others, I needed to annihilate my ego and be filled simply and purely with God's love and will for me. This was the closest I have come to what others might call a zen state. Besides when I am just in a relaxed, meditative moment.

    So, ironically, it's not when we detach from others that makes living with others less painful, it's when we detach from ourselves-and our ego fixations-that makes all the difference...
    Well it's not quite like that either. It's not a soulless detachment where you can't have any love or joy.

    It's also not an avoidance of pain, because that is impossible.

    Even if you go live on a mountain with nobody around, there is still the possibility of suffering - you will get older and weaker. You will get hungry. You might get sick, or injured. You can't escape suffering by trying to block it out - that actually in its own way produces suffering.

    It also might make you lonely which is another form of suffering.

    I believe some have taken the teachings too far.

    One of my favorite monks is Tanzan, because he didn't give a crap about the stuffy rules.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzan

    In Tokyo in the Meiji era there lived two prominent teachers of opposite characteristics. One, Unsho, an instructor in Shingon, kept Buddha's precepts scrupulously. He never drank intoxicants, nor did he eat after eleven o'clock in the morning.
    The other teacher, Tanzan, a professor of philosophy at the Imperial University, never observed the precepts. When he felt like eating he ate, and when he felt like sleeping in the daytime he slept.
    One day Unsho visited Tanzan, who was drinking wine at the time, not even a drop of which is supposed to touch the tongue of a Buddhist.
    'Hello, brother,' Tanzan greeted him. 'Won't you have a drink?'
    'I never drink!' exclaimed Unsho solemnly.
    'One who does not drink is not even human,’ said Tanzan.
    'Do you mean to call me inhuman just because I do not indulge in intoxicating liquids!' exclaimed Unsho in anger. Then if I am not human, what am I?'
    'A Buddha.' answered Tanzan.

  9. #9
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    Carvakan philosophy was the most appealing to me at the time I was studying Indian spirituality.

  10. #10
    until you're fully grown Holy's Avatar
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    Asceticism is only one aspect of Buddhism and depending on what you were to read about the latter, you'd find that it's not absolute. As with any philosophy or path, there are divergences. The way a monk practices isn't the same as someone who would rather live their lives within society. Seems like you might be throwing out the baby with the bath water. That does wonders for vanity, but it cripples the thing you say you're seeking to find.

    This is just my opinion, but it seems like you're looking more for validation in your own beliefs than the ' truth '. No disrespect intended.

    You seem to be familiar with the Bible already, why not some Buddhism texts?
    There all sorts of resources available on the subject.

    In my experience, it was a lot easier to get a firm grasp on things with the books in front of me, instead of the things I read on Wikipedia / online.
    「open up your throat。」
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