User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: Freedom is...

  1. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Freedom of mind and thought is the only real freedom.

    And even then that fortress is not wholly safe because of the constant influence of determinism, subliminal messaging and indoctrination.

    Externally what we possess is an ever changing tide of choices...as this sea waxes and wanes the choices seem to grow and to diminish.
    The difference between each country, (for example), is the variation in choices each possesses. Ironically some countries have many many choices, but they are inhabited by people who limit themselves to just one or two.

    Im always fascinated by the contradiction in the United States where freedom of speech is so often used to constrict the freedom of others.

    But we are greedy. The more choice we have, the more we want; to the point that we will actually wage wars to achieve or maintain that choice.

    Once we have that choice though; what do we do with it? It is a sad ending that we seem to be left with people who want to control more and more choices and limit them to only the ones that they approve of. Fascism does not have to be the system of a countries government to exist strongly in the mind of it's inhabitants.
    The final point is a good one, in any of the countries which deserve that title it was a popular and public mobilisation before, during and after any regime itself which claimed to represent or be the embodiment of the idea.

  2. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    “Freedom is not a constant attribute which we either "have" or "have not." In fact, there is no such thing as "freedom" except as a word and an abstract concept. There is only one reality: the act of freeing ourselves in the process of making choices. In this process the degree of our capacity to make choices varies with each act, with our practice of life.”
    ― Erich Fromm, El Corazon del Hombre: Su Potencia Para el Bien y Para el Mal

    Probably the best definition of freedom I know, what do you think?

    Its between this and the discourse on voluntary servitude.
    In a philosophical sense, the bolded is what I agree with. In that sense, freedom (and thus free will) is only an illusion. Every choice I make is determined by a combination of who I am and the circumstances. Who I am is ultimately determined by past circumstances. The only freedom I have is the freedom of being myself, of doing what I'm bound to do. It can be said that I am my freedom. And what precisely that is, I'm not entirely sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So the part that says that making choices frees us is..... not really the way I see it. Not making choices can be very freeing, perhaps the most freeing, because one is allowing life to just flow where it will, without any sort of control whatsoever.
    If you're not making a choice because you can't, what's freeing about that? And if you just choose not to make a choice then you have already made a choice. The only way it would make sense is if you made a choice that would limit your future choices. But wouldn't that be just escaping responsibility?

  3. #13
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad3k View Post
    In a philosophical sense, the bolded is what I agree with. In that sense, freedom (and thus free will) is only an illusion. Every choice I make is determined by a combination of who I am and the circumstances. Who I am is ultimately determined by past circumstances. The only freedom I have is the freedom of being myself, of doing what I'm bound to do. It can be said that I am my freedom. And what precisely that is, I'm not entirely sure.



    If you're not making a choice because you can't, what's freeing about that? And if you just choose not to make a choice then you have already made a choice. The only way it would make sense is if you made a choice that would limit your future choices. But wouldn't that be just escaping responsibility?
    Oh, I CAN make a choice. But choosing not to make a choice is a choice to not interject my own conscious will on life, but to let the actions of others reign over me.

    It's a passive choice versus an active choice. And being passive can make a beautiful difference. Because it allows the possibility for the nuances of the unconscious and others' choices to supercede my path.

    And this is fascinating for me> The space created, and things that fill it, when I stand down and choose passivity.



    Of course, always choosing passivity would be boring and irresponsible, yes. One would then likely become 'passive-aggresive' because they would become tired of their passivity, but not know how to choose to not be passive.



    I guess what's coming out here is that choice can be active or passive. And people need a healthy dose of both. And knowing when to choose and when not to choose is a choice best made with introspective living.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #14
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    What's the OT?
    Your definition just sounds like a juristic or legalistic framing to suit fiscal libertarianism or capitalism, no disrespect, I think freedom existed before capitalism, capitalism limits it, and freedom will exist after capitalism has gone.
    - this definition of freedom is possible in any time period as long as government doesn't restrict it. notice I didn't mention anything about money (which, in my opinion, is a means to increase tangible power, ie, what you have the ability to do in reality)
    - that said, I do believe capitalism was a tremendous liberating force for the world
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  5. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - this definition of freedom is possible in any time period as long as government doesn't restrict it. notice I didn't mention anything about money (which, in my opinion, is a means to increase tangible power, ie, what you have the ability to do in reality)
    - that said, I do believe capitalism was a tremendous liberating force for the world
    Yeah, I think you're consist in what you think. You're just not right.

  6. #16
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I think you're consist in what you think. You're just not right.
    I don't see how I'm wrong, you wouldn't believe how liberating this ideology is.

    PS: you? enneagram 7? nigga please!
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I don't see how I'm wrong, you wouldn't believe how liberating this ideology is.

    PS: you? enneagram 7? nigga please!
    I thought it was you told me that I was seven, is seven the crusader or something like that? I dont really follow enneagram to be honest.

    I dont really think ideologies are liberating, I definitely do not believe that any ideology which serves as a rationalisation for capitalism in quite the way that economics has could possibly be liberating.

  8. #18
    WALMART
    Guest

    Default

    n't free.

  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SLI None
    Posts
    9,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I thought it was you told me that I was seven, is seven the crusader or something like that? I dont really follow enneagram to be honest.
    noooo, you're thinking of Enneagram 1

    I dont really think ideologies are liberating, I definitely do not believe that any ideology which serves as a rationalisation for capitalism in quite the way that economics has could possibly be liberating.
    you will, with time
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
    ENFP
    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
    SEE-Fi
    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Chibi Seme
    MTG Color: black/red
    Male Archtype: King/Lover
    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #20
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,370

    Default

    What about the comparative meaning of freedom? An introvert can see boundaries have been removed or put in place around them and feel a sense that they either have freedom or lost it. And that is something they can clearly have in their minds, something that does not involve making a choice on their part, unless you argue that not making a choice is still making a choice.

Similar Threads

  1. Is freedom an absolute good?
    By The Wailing Specter in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-26-2015, 09:34 PM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-01-2013, 01:02 AM
  3. What is Freedom?
    By Ginkgo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 12-17-2009, 11:48 AM
  4. Death is Freedom
    By metamorphysics in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 02-10-2009, 12:39 PM
  5. Thomas Jefferson: Freedom [is] the First Born Daughter of Science
    By ygolo in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-16-2009, 06:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO