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  1. #61
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Just one question.

    In what world is it okay to knowingly and deliberately hurt your loved one?

    PS: Adultery with consent from your partner is not really adultery, so is not a valid answer to my question.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #62
    Senior Member Pseudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Just one question.

    In what world is it okay to knowingly and deliberately hurt your loved one?

    PS: Adultery with consent from your partner is not really adultery, so is not a valid answer to my question.
    Biblically it's still adultery. And by definition it's still adultery. Just not deceptive or malicious adultery I guess

  3. #63
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    They sort of do dont they? The older threads are worth a look though, its become a more rapid thing over time I think.

    This has been the strangest thread ever though, I wouldnt have took it for a overt or covert attempt to spread any religious beliefs.


    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Are we born with sin? Or is it learned?

    In either case this implies that we are imperfect. But god is perfect, how could he/she/it/llama create such imperfection? If that proves him/her/it/llama wrong; what does that mean for god?

    Also we are created in god's image, so god is an imperfect being? But god is infallible. Does god now cease to exist based upon this contradiction?
    Well, biblically, we created this for ourselves when Eve ate of the forbidden fruit in an attempt to attain the knowledge God had. Adam followed suit, and man 'fell,' consigning all future man to a life of imperfection and death.

    God remained immutable as always. Then God sent Jesus and he was the ultimate sacrifice for our sins--he substituted his perfect life for our imperfect ones and wiped all our past, present, and future slates clean; all we have to do is accept this and it will be done.

    Do you have any questions about sexual practices or sexual immorality?

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Yeah. I never could reconcile myself with striving for an impossible goal which can only be passed by mercy - which by all accounts I do not even deserve.

    So I guess I have faith in the sense that if there is an all mighty God it will know exactly what to do with me no matter what and I'm pretty much a gold fish. To have me strive for something that I cannot do based on an authority that I cannot be sure of is not a recipe for faith or humility, to me. It's a recipe for tricking myself into thinking I know best.
    You are right, you cannot reconcile yourself, you must have consciousness and faith in Jesus to reconcile you to God for you. Belief in God is something he graces you with. It is beyond any of us to really know how or when that will happen for anyone.

    Do you feel him inviting you to know him at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I'm not sure about Augustine's definition. Does that mean that a couple who have been happily married for, say, 20 years and have consensual, loving sex are not expressing their love but rather indulging in lust? Assuming they don't believe in YHWH? Does it mean only Christians are capable of loving sex?
    Whether they know it or not, they are glorifying YHWH by their love. YHWH is the creator of the universe! He gives us all everything, including the love we feel and the gifts we are graced with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Are any humans created to be non-sexual? Are any humans created with sexual urges they are meant to deny? Are any people incapable of anything but lust?
    To the bolded: I am not sure because I am not God. Only he knows.

    Yes, plenty of people. Is this not your experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Reasonable answer. I have a bit of a different one, being pagan, as @kyuuei pointed out.


    I agree stereotyping can be an issue, and I certainly don't like it from a pagan standpoint; but there are certain common attitudes in a religion despite the great variety. Since there are so many branches of Christianity, with each person lending their own personal spin on things, of course there are radically conservative as well as radically liberal people and everything in between, each citing their own Biblical references. But there are some things, particularly those which differ from paganism, which are pretty specific to the religion and difficult to moderate.


    Pagans refer to the general public as "mundane;" there are huge differences between the average person and the average pagan. Perhaps attitudes about sexuality are becoming less traditionally Christian and more pagan, but paganism still is not close to being widely assimilated into people's minds. Paganism views sex as a fusion between the spiritual and the physical; this view is shared with Christianity. We just have different views on the nature of the relationship and how it works. So doing it right from a pagan standpoint would involve much more than just physical sex. It doesn't require romantic love, or a legal marriage, or devotion to a particular deity, but it does require mindfulness of the interconnection of all things and the process of creation, as well as a spiritual agape sort of love for the partner/s. This connection is what you correctly say is lacking from the attitude of popular culture. Popular culture still doesn't know how to fuse the spiritual with the physical, so they tend to do all one or the other.

    So what you are saying about mainstream practices is largely accurate, but it is not due to paganism, nor does it apply to pagans. I find my lifestyle to be the most liberating, fulfilling, and loving one I've come across.


    Yeah, that would be me. Sorry.

    No, I don't really hate Christians; I just like to criticize their belief systems to see if they are logically consistent. Of course people have a right to believe what they want regardless of logical or scientific validity, but when they become proscriptive to non-Christians I feel the urge to have a dialogue.
    Thanks for the expose on paganism. I used to sort of live like that, but it wasn't really in my nature to do so--it was from a sensual/sexual perspective, but not from a soulful/loving perspective, because I CAN love readily and easily but most others cannot, leaving me to fall in that chasm. I perceive pagans as putting sensuality/sexuality first and having love flow out of that, but if love is your primary focus, which it should be (as I've argued in this thread and other threads of late), then it is only logical to have love precede lust/sex. Otherwise one gets pulled too far into the evil worldly realm Satan rules and, unbeknownst to us, we become fodder for his fiendish ways.

    That is why the scriptures speak so much about sexual immorality>because it is so so so easy to slip over the edge of sexualoving into lusting....and I find that most either get hurt badly in that lifestyle, stagnate in that lifestyle, or hurt others in that lifestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Just one question.

    In what world is it okay to knowingly and deliberately hurt your loved one?

    PS: Adultery with consent from your partner is not really adultery, so is not a valid answer to my question.
    Not sure what your point is. ? Confused to the first part.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Biblically it's still adultery. And by definition it's still adultery. Just not deceptive or malicious adultery I guess
    I'm just not so sure.....Need more discussion about this.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  4. #64
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Do you feel him inviting you to know him at all?
    I feel a lot of things and cannot claim to know what they are or why.

    If I say no then that invalidates what I experience. If I say yes then it invalidates what you experience, or calls the authenticity of my experience into question because it greatly differs from typical doctrine.

    It's a typical dilemma of how do you know if what you feel is not a mind trick. You just feel that it isn't, correct?
    But if I feel that what I feel is authentic then we have a problem. Which one is valid? Maybe you 'just know' - well, so do I.

  5. #65
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    I feel a lot of things and cannot claim to know what they are or why.

    If I say no then that invalidates what I experience. If I say yes then it invalidates what you experience, or calls the authenticity of my experience into question because it greatly differs from typical doctrine.

    It's a typical dilemma of how do you know if what you feel is not a mind trick. You just feel that it isn't, correct?
    But if I feel that what I feel is authentic then we have a problem. Which one is valid? Maybe you 'just know' - well, so do I.
    Well, what do you feel? I'm not here to tear apart what you say or invalidate anyone. I'm here to listen and share my perspective on things pertaining to sexuality and love.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #66
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Well, what do you feel? I'm not here to tear apart what you say or invalidate anyone. I'm here to listen and share my perspective on things pertaining to sexuality and love.
    Well that depends on my level of satori but for the most part I feel peaceful and lacking nothing.

    I've heard of people speak of a void in their life that God somehow fills, but I do not have that. Sure I get aggravated and do bad things but I don't have this existential crisis that people seem to experience. I used to have it, but now I don't.

    I've glimpsed what my original face was before I was born. I can't claim to have mastered that yet but I'm definitely able to experience it.

  7. #67
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Well that depends on my level of satori but for the most part I feel peaceful and lacking nothing.

    I've heard of people speak of a void in their life that God somehow fills, but I do not have that. Sure I get aggravated and do bad things but I don't have this existential crisis that people seem to experience. I used to have it, but now I don't.

    I've glimpsed what my original face was before I was born. I can't claim to have mastered that yet but I'm definitely able to experience it.

    So, you feel content?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #68
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post

    Not sure what your point is. ? Confused to the first part.
    It means that there is only one question on my mind and it isn't likely that I will follow up with more questions. :P

    I just wanted to put the thought out there in general. I'm pretty anti-immorality like that.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  9. #69
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    So, you feel content?
    Not content, I still have a lot of progress to make. What I mean is that there is no dire lack of anything. I'm not feeling just good enough here, I can go much further but also I acknowledge that I have a pretty good life and that many concerns are just self created. I can avoid creating these concerns if I choose.

  10. #70
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    It means that there is only one question on my mind and it isn't likely that I will follow up with more questions. :P

    I just wanted to put the thought out there in general. I'm pretty anti-immorality like that.
    So what is your question?

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Not content, I still have a lot of progress to make. What I mean is that there is no dire lack of anything. I'm not feeling just good enough here, I can go much further but also I acknowledge that I have a pretty good life and that many concerns are just self created. I can avoid creating these concerns if I choose.
    I ask because that has proven to be the best barometer for me to know if one is walking with God or is ready for God to come into his life. I only felt 'content' when I accepted Christ. And other Christians describe the same feeling. Ironically, I do not currently feel 'happy' yet I feel content. Before I knew God and Christ I felt happy but not content.

    I think contentment is a more desired state of living in. And what I believe Buddhists and other religions try to accomplish as well. I'm actually experiencing that right now.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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