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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    And now to confuse things a bit more:

    From wiki:



    So it appears that the traditional "7 deadly sins as we know them" are more Catholic, and not necessarily biblical.

    Geez. It seems Catholics follow more of their own made-up doctrine than that in the bible. No wonder Catholics and Anglicans don't use the bible very much during church services.
    I'm not Catholic, but even if they might make up their doctrine sometimes that couldn't be any worse than others saying they're following the Bible but misinterpreting what it actually says. This seems to be pretty common, in my opinion.

  2. #152
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Such as? I attend Protestant services, and while there is greater focus on the sermon as opposed to the Eucharist, I don't see a significant difference between the amount of scripture cited, except Lutherans include an Old Testament reading alongside the Epistle and Gospel readings.
    Well, I currently attend a non-denominational church and an episcopal church (and grew up attending episcopal church), and I never realized the bible was involved in church, except for maybe one or two scriptures quoted. The non-denominational church I attend is ALL about the bible, as in the pastor preaches right out of it, and quotes it a multitude of times, makes his sermon around it, etc.

    I'd love to see a church combine the two types of worship: The lengthy, informative bible-laden sermon with the eucharist. Is that so much to ask? Until then, I will just go to both.



    If there were a church continuum and the catholic church was at one end, what church would be at the other end? And where would all the other religions fall inbetween? And what would the ones toward the opposite end of the continuum from the cath/epis/luth churches be called? The ones who don't participate in the weekly eucharist (is that communion?). My lingo is pathetic. I'd like to be taught this by someone.



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  3. #153
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Well, I currently attend a non-denominational church and an episcopal church (and grew up attending episcopal church), and I never realized the bible was involved in church, except for maybe one or two scriptures quoted.
    So you attended an episcopal church and didn't realize that the readings you heard were from the Bible? And that the minister based his or her sermon on those readings? And that the Sunday School lessons were based on those Bible readings too?

    True you don't see many episcopal folks actually pick up the Bible in church, but everything that happens each day and each season is based on the Bible readings as set out in the Lectionary. Two bible readings, the Gospel and a psalm.
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  4. #154
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    So you attended an episcopal church and didn't realize that the readings you heard were from the Bible? And that the minister based his or her sermon on those readings? And that the Sunday School lessons were based on those Bible readings too?

    True you don't see many episcopal folks actually pick up the Bible in church, but everything that happens each day and each season is based on the Bible readings as set out in the Lectionary. Two bible readings, the Gospel and a psalm.
    Yes, I did. But not in such a way as that the bible was the Word of God or should be the main focus of study. You went to church, and said everything about of the prayer book and the insert. Yes, the scriptures (the few used) were quoted but were such a small part of what was iterated that it isn't surprising that a child would not have a knowledge of the bible being the main source. Then as I got older, I just thought going through the motions every week was good enough. And the 5-10 minute boring sermon was usually non-applicable.

    I don't think this is too far off others' experience, Peace.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I'd love to see a church combine the two types of worship: The lengthy, informative bible-laden sermon with the eucharist. Is that so much to ask? Until then, I will just go to both.
    Stereotypically, ex-Episcopalians just become Orthodox and chant Scriptures.


  6. #156
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I regularly attend non-denominational, Lutheran, Catholic, Older style Catholic (where they still do the whole thing in Latin), Protestant, and Baptist services.. I honestly see a huge difference in the style in which they present the material, but the only thing that unites them at all is the Bible itself. They all agree on that book, if nothing else, which is why it is so easy to attend any Christian church and get the same core information out of it.

    They only focus on 1-2 quotes and principles at a time and go in depth because people are stupid. No offense to the world, or anything. They don't really have long attention spans, and if they were interested in the reading the material in length they'd probably do it themselves on their own time and terms. They want to learn juuust a little bit, in a childish manner that they can grasp and hold onto. So one or two quotes that resemble the same materials given in a flashy and catchy speech (however your definition of flashy and catchy is) is part of what Priests and ministers do for the people of the church. They teach the people, and cater their teachings to the people. It isn't that they don't bust the whole book out because they don't want to--its typically because the people don't really want them to and they comply with that.

    All you need to start a church is The Bible and people willing to listen to it. That's it. Yet, powerpoint, projectors, choirs, ministers, and all the other bells and whistles are there anyways. Sure, you don't NEED a new appliance, but if it works better why not get it? A Minister knows more than the average joe-shmoe, and he can translate the words in the Bible much better than a Mr. Normal Guy. You get more out of it when you have a proper teacher. And when you have lessons broken up over time. That's typical of all lessons in life..
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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Older style Catholic (where they still do the whole thing in Latin)
    It's called the Tridentine Mass.

  8. #158
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Yes, I did. But not in such a way as that the bible was the Word of God or should be the main focus of study. You went to church, and said everything about of the prayer book and the insert. Yes, the scriptures (the few used) were quoted but were such a small part of what was iterated that it isn't surprising that a child would not have a knowledge of the bible being the main source. Then as I got older, I just thought going through the motions every week was good enough. And the 5-10 minute boring sermon was usually non-applicable.

    I don't think this is too far off others' experience, Peace.
    The 'non-denominational' churches are a new sort of church in this day and age, and they're each probably pretty different in application and interpretation of the Bible. I think one thing they have in common is they tend to be more 'flashy', with more modern music styles (they are all trying to appeal to a younger generation) and also I think a lot more appeal to peoples' emotions. Some of the really large ones seem more like corporations, imo, which is... something I won't comment on here.

    I was raised ELCA lutheran, and also I have attended a few catholic and episcopal churches in the past. I agree many of these services are more rote, and tend to be pretty uninspirational for children. But, even as you cite your experience with 5-10 minute sermons being inapplicable, as with all churches and pastors out there, it's highly dependent on the church and the pastor as to the sermons preached. Although I am not a Christian any longer, I can think of many pastors whose sermons were very applicable and full of wisdom; and, other pastors who just didn't reach me/ I didn't care for (although they probably reached a different set of personalities).

    Having attended these, as well as non-denominational churches for a few years many years ago, if I were to ever attend church again in the future, I'd without question go back to the protestant churches and I would not even set foot in a non-denominational. The 'danger' of the non-denominationals is that while as you say, they tend to lean much more heavily on the Bible in their services , for that very reason many go the direction of taking the Bible so literally and out of context that they become so narrowly focused so as to obliterate everything else but their narrow interpretation (as, with every non-denom interpreting the Bible in their own light, you could go to any number of non-denoms and be given a slightly different twist on what the Bible's saying and what the Word of God actually is, and some non-denoms will have people throwing themselves onto the floor in 'rapture' and others are more, well, normal).

    otoh, regarding the piece I underlined, I'm not certain in reality how accurate that impression is: I almost think the same amount of bible verses are utilized in a typical service in each type of church, but the manner of interpretation, as well as non-denoms in many cases being more apt to also lean on books of the bible that are viewed in a more metaphorical sense by ELCA, Catholics, etc, and thus not focused on in these more established churches (i.e. Revelations as one), may be the main difference.
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Well, I currently attend a non-denominational church and an episcopal church (and grew up attending episcopal church), and I never realized the bible was involved in church, except for maybe one or two scriptures quoted. The non-denominational church I attend is ALL about the bible, as in the pastor preaches right out of it, and quotes it a multitude of times, makes his sermon around it, etc.

    I'd love to see a church combine the two types of worship: The lengthy, informative bible-laden sermon with the eucharist. Is that so much to ask? Until then, I will just go to both.



    If there were a church continuum and the catholic church was at one end, what church would be at the other end? And where would all the other religions fall inbetween? And what would the ones toward the opposite end of the continuum from the cath/epis/luth churches be called? The ones who don't participate in the weekly eucharist (is that communion?). My lingo is pathetic. I'd like to be taught this by someone.



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    My background is (Trinity) Pentecostal and Independent Baptist. I've also attended Nondenominational and Wesleyan churches. They usually call eucharist communion. My denomination considers it and water baptism (by dunking) to be the only two sacraments. We actually used to be racially integrated, but supposedly we split over whether or not foot washing should be considered a sacrament. The White denomination became the Assemblies of God and the Black denomination became the Church of God in Christ. Pretty silly, IMO. Probably the White people didn't want to wash Black people's feet or something.

    Anyway, my church and most of the churches I've attended usually do communion on the first Sunday of the month. I was planning on skipping those Sundays, but the pastor (my brother) tricked me last time by holding communion on the last Sunday of November.
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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    The 'non-denominational' churches are a new sort of church in this day and age, and they're each probably pretty different in application and interpretation of the Bible. I think one thing they have in common is they tend to be more 'flashy', with more modern music styles (they are all trying to appeal to a younger generation) and also I think a lot more appeal to peoples' emotions. Some of the really large ones seem more like corporations, imo, which is... something I won't comment on here.

    I was raised ELCA lutheran, and also I have attended a few catholic and episcopal churches in the past. I agree many of these services are more rote, and tend to be pretty uninspirational for children. But, even as you cite your experience with 5-10 minute sermons being inapplicable, as with all churches and pastors out there, it's highly dependent on the church and the pastor as to the sermons preached. Although I am not a Christian any longer, I can think of many pastors whose sermons were very applicable and full of wisdom; and, other pastors who just didn't reach me/ I didn't care for (although they probably reached a different set of personalities).

    Having attended these, as well as non-denominational churches for a few years many years ago, if I were to ever attend church again in the future, I'd without question go back to the protestant churches and I would not even set foot in a non-denominational. The 'danger' of the non-denominationals is that while as you say, they tend to lean much more heavily on the Bible in their services , for that very reason many go the direction of taking the Bible so literally and out of context that they become so narrowly focused so as to obliterate everything else but their narrow interpretation (as, with every non-denom interpreting the Bible in their own light, you could go to any number of non-denoms and be given a slightly different twist on what the Bible's saying and what the Word of God actually is, and some non-denoms will have people throwing themselves onto the floor in 'rapture' and others are more, well, normal).
    I agree with all this, but in my denomination, "being slain in the spirit" is a perfectly normal and expected occurrence. So is speaking in tongues. When I was a kid, people would fall out, hit their heads on a pew or something on the way down, and get up later not knowing they'd hit anything. Now, because of insurance and lawsuits and stuff, they generally have "catchers" in prayer lines where people are most likely to fall out. They used to keep clothes by the altar to cover the legs of women that fell out so they could concentrate on the Lord instead of thinking about whether their dress had rode up. Some churches still do this, but I don't think they know where the tradition came from because they cover the legs of people wearing pants.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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