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  1. #81
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Yeah. Leviticus. Not sure what to do about Leviticus, and all the mitzvot. We'd have to follow like 613 laws if we were to do it all, making homosexuality just one of hundreds of things that are 'detestable.'

    I still go back to the 10 Commandments and the love/lust rule to help me determine and identify sexual immorality.
    There are two or three places in the Epistles, also, FWIW. There are multiple views on whether or not it is proper to interpret them as forbidding homosexual relationships. I think pederasty and various types of temple prostitution were fairly common at the time and the verses could be referring to that rather than to relationships between consenting adults. And in Ezekiel, the sin of Sodom is that they "were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

    I have decided to be agnostic about the interpretation of those verses in the Epistles. I mean, God in the OT does forbid it (at least for men) fairly specifically, but he also seems to almost randomly smite people and commands ethnic cleansing and stuff. In the New Testament, he seems somewhat more . . . compassionate. It seems inconsistent with the message of Christ that God would make someone a certain way then consign them to lifelong celibacy. But I can't say for sure that it's not the case. It could be considered a cross to bear or a thorn in the flesh or something like that. I can't find it in my heart to condemn someone for who they love and I am not attracted to people of the same sex, so I don't feel compelled to explore it further. I really only need to decide whether or not something is a sin for me, not for anyone else.

    Not related to this topic specifically, but to Love as a Christian concept, you might enjoy reading C.S. Lewis' The Four Loves. It's been awhile since I read it, but I remember enjoying it very much and being presented with new ideas that were interesting to think about.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #82
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    You might want to mind that lustfulness. Just sayin. It's opens a door for the devil to ply his wily ways.



    If love takes time, I respect and honor that. I hope that it gets easier for you to trust, and that you find someone(s) whom you can trust.

    But you really have no business lusting in the meantime. You should work on your inability to trust, which is likely a love issue as well, then when you have become better in that regard, work on loving others. Since you already have a man, you should not need to lust others at all, unless that is something you both agree on (and to go there we'd have to move this to my new aphrodite thread).
    what we have works quite well for us... a good "look and leer all you want but no touching!" policy... which is helped by the fact that he's a germaphobe and I hate being touched

    plus... watching a good "dancer" do her thing on the pole can get BOTH of us ready to head straight home and rip each other's clothes off... always a nice thing

    and on another note, everyone's different- what works for one won't necessarily work for anyone else... same applies to relationships- ours might be an odd one sometimes, but we're happy
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #83
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    There are two or three places in the Epistles, also, FWIW. There are multiple views on whether or not it is proper to interpret them as forbidding homosexual relationships. I think pederasty and various types of temple prostitution were fairly common at the time and the verses could be referring to that rather than to relationships between consenting adults. And in Ezekiel, the sin of Sodom is that they "were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

    I have decided to be agnostic about the interpretation of those verses in the Epistles. I mean, God in the OT does forbid it (at least for men) fairly specifically, but he also seems to almost randomly smite people and commands ethnic cleansing and stuff. In the New Testament, he seems somewhat more . . . compassionate. It seems inconsistent with the message of Christ that God would make someone a certain way then consign them to lifelong celibacy. But I can't say for sure that it's not the case. It could be considered a cross to bear or a thorn in the flesh or something like that. I can't find it in my heart to condemn someone for who they love and I am not attracted to people of the same sex, so I don't feel compelled to explore it further. I really only need to decide whether or not something is a sin for me, not for anyone else.

    Not related to this topic specifically, but to Love as a Christian concept, you might enjoy reading C.S. Lewis' The Four Loves. It's been awhile since I read it, but I remember enjoying it very much and being presented with new ideas that were interesting to think about.
    Yeah, agreed. Again, we have the 10 Commandments for a reason. They tell us what to avoid to avoid sin. Then the rest of the bible gives us an enchiridion for how to live fully in Christ, if we choose to.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    what we have works quite well for us... a good "look and leer all you want but no touching!" policy... which is helped by the fact that he's a germaphobe and I hate being touched

    plus... watching a good "dancer" do her thing on the pole can get BOTH of us ready to head straight home and rip each other's clothes off... always a nice thing

    and on another note, everyone's different- what works for one won't necessarily work for anyone else... same applies to relationships- ours might be an odd one sometimes, but we're happy

    If you agree to a certain amount of lustfulness in your relationship, then there is no sin in that, as long as it doesn't start to covet your neighbor. It just might not be the highest state or fulfillment your relationship could find. For example, you could be spending that time watching the pole dancer meeting with another couple and sharing with them. Or doing something else to glorify God, that would feed your soul and mind.
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  4. #84
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    If you agree to a certain amount of lustfulness in your relationship, then there is no sin in that, as long as it doesn't start to covet your neighbor. It just might not be the highest state or fulfillment your relationship could find. For example, you could be spending that time watching the pole dancer meeting with another couple and sharing with them. Or doing something else to glorify God, that would feed your soul and mind.
    and on the list of reasons why I am not religious... what sort of horrible god would put a lovely fruit tree in front of people and say "now don't touch this!"

    I would rather truly live my life in every facet than to tiptoe around hoping that I'm not offending anyone... if I die and I regret NOT doing something in life I've died a failure... luckily I've found someone with a similar view on the world- sometimes a person just gets that fortunate- we love each other, trust each other and still are excited to go home together at the end of the night after the honeymoon period has wound down... how many people can say that?

    dancing, if done correctly, is every bit as much of an art as the paintings in the art museum (and often involves the same amount of clothing as well... )... and if Keats is right, it's truth in motion... there's nothing wrong with a little theater before bedtime if everyone knows their boundaries. Whether or not I'm a good person is much less of a bother to me since I'm aware that, above all else, I'm a person and so is everyone else... it engenders a sense of equality and sisterhood that religion looks for... sometimes a little less worrying and a little more simplicity is a lovely thing

    but then again, that's my take... and if religion is right, I'll spend my afterlife in good company...
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #85
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    and on the list of reasons why I am not religious... what sort of horrible god would put a lovely fruit tree in front of people and say "now don't touch this!"
    Well that's obviously just a story and really makes no sense. I think it's a feeble attempt at an analogy of the human condition.

    However, yes it makes no sense in any universe to make a tree that has the power to grant knowledge of good and evil in that situation. God did not need it and told Adam and Eve not to have it.

    I figure that whoever wrote that just meant to illustrate how humans went from innocence to our current condition but missed the giant plot hole that the tree and its powers really has no explanation for being there.

  6. #86
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    and on the list of reasons why I am not religious... what sort of horrible god would put a lovely fruit tree in front of people and say "now don't touch this!"

    I would rather truly live my life in every facet than to tiptoe around hoping that I'm not offending anyone... if I die and I regret NOT doing something in life I've died a failure... luckily I've found someone with a similar view on the world- sometimes a person just gets that fortunate- we love each other, trust each other and still are excited to go home together at the end of the night after the honeymoon period has wound down... how many people can say that?

    dancing, if done correctly, is every bit as much of an art as the paintings in the art museum (and often involves the same amount of clothing as well... )... and if Keats is right, it's truth in motion... there's nothing wrong with a little theater before bedtime if everyone knows their boundaries. Whether or not I'm a good person is much less of a bother to me since I'm aware that, above all else, I'm a person and so is everyone else... it engenders a sense of equality and sisterhood that religion looks for... sometimes a little less worrying and a little more simplicity is a lovely thing

    but then again, that's my take... and if religion is right, I'll spend my afterlife in good company...
    Well, none of us is 'good' anyway. Only God is good.

    I hope things work out for you, you sound pretty level-headed and grounded. Best wishes.
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Why would someone who claims to be so holy be such a terrible liar?

    Shame on you.

  8. #88
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    No. You're incapable of sane argument. I'd rather you just kept your word. Seems you're incapable of that too. You don't get to preach till you learn how to practice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #89
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Oh. And I've done the non-Godly thing and it's scarred me for life. To each his own.
    I regretted phrasing that harshly soon after posting.

    I get frustrated on this topic just because I spent my younger adult years hearing about providential leading towards romantic encounters and it often followed the same pattern:

    When someone was attracted to another person, they would see providential leading in every detail
    Sometimes a relationship would result with emotional hype about God's leading
    The relationship falls apart and all providence is forgotten.
    Repeat

    Sometimes a person would be angry at god for not giving them a partner, not realizing that their own social backwardness and inability to communicate was the problem. Instead of focusing on personal responsibility to make self-improvements, it was all placed on the magical granting of prayer requests.

    Giving one's will over to god is dangerous because it can lead people to trust the judgment of pastors and other outside people or personal impulses which are not subjected to analysis and questioning.

    Two of the most important tools a person can possess to result in successful relationships is a deep self-awareness that knows not only sexual orientation, but our every strength and weakness, and the ability to take responsibility for our choices. Some people are bi and could have a successful, healthy relationship with either gender, but some people would be psychologically and emotionally dismantled by being with someone they could not connect with sexually.

    I hope that clarifies why I reacted so negatively to the concept of this thread.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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  10. #90
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Are you asking for trouble? I am bisexual myself, but this view you defend is just like heterosexuals and homosexuals often saying that bisexuality doesn't exist. Follow whatever is logic or true to you, but please don't make it a common rule for anyone else.
    Oh, and since you claim to not even be bisexual, then please I ask you kindly not to mess with issues that are foreign to your personal experience/suffering/feeling. You are just putting your finger on a sore that is already hurting. This kind of argument really doesn't help at all "the cause" that you are "theoretically" sustaining.

    Also: there are also asexual, or at least little sexual people. the level of sexuality, as well as the gender it is directed to, all fall under a continuum, it's not always black nor white; otherwise, it's not always grey either. So, not wanting to, your argument is quite discriminating of at least a group: asexual people.

    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    I think the ultimate expression a human can manifest is love. And not all love is created equal. I think the highest love is truly unconditional love, agape, which God has for us, his children.

    Upon contemplating a hypothetical romantic partner for myself, it dawned on me that if I say, "I am heterosexual and therefore my perfect mate is a male," that is the same as saying, "I am a homosexual and my perfect mate is a female". But what if my perfect mate is actually something other than what I think I identify with? This happens in other things regarding our lives, we think we *know* something but God shows us otherwise.

    I think perhaps the Godliest way to be, if we want to live in God's will for us, is to just say we are sexual, if we must say anything at all. Perhaps we should just say we are loving, because we should not really be sexing for sex's sake, but for love, making love the primary impetus for sensual and sexual relations anyway.

    If we say we are X-sexual, we are trying to control who we love. And we are saying that who we love is based on who we want to have sex with. We are allowing our sexual inclinations (more superficial) to dictate love. Since love is THE primary substance of everything (because God is love and God is everything), this is wrong. So, for these reasons identifying who we are based on some misguided sexual notions, is not Godly.

    So, no, I'm not bisexual. I'm not heterosexual. I'm not homosexual. I'm just loving. And when God wants me to have a sexualoving relationship, he'll give me someone to love that I may be sexual with.

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