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  1. #51
    Gone Aesthete's Avatar
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    Hm...the love you're describing and encouraging is more of a Platonic nature. Homo- or Heterosexual is more of a matter of chemicals causing one to find a certain sex attractive (sexual love), for whatever reason.
    Great men are like eagles, and build their nest on some lofty solitude.

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  2. #52
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrystalViolet View Post
    I get it. I even have a girl who seems to have a mega crush on me. Unfortunately, I can't quite transcend that whole pyshical barrier thing, because quite simply she is the wrong sex.
    Which is a bummer, because she's actually quite hot. I like men. I can't over ride that. Honestly I'm stupid for even considering it.

    But you must understand it isn't about her being the wrong sex. It's about her being the wrong love.

    That is what I mean. Sex follows love. Not vice versa.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  3. #53
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    Oh, nice. Yes, there most certainly can be love without sex. But there should be no sex without love. Thanks for addressing that.
    I agree with this, I understand what you're trying to say now I think, that's a lot clearer

  4. #54
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But you must understand it isn't about her being the wrong sex. It's about her being the wrong love.

    That is what I mean. Sex follows love. Not vice versa.
    Um, but it was determined by her to be the "wrong love" for no other reason than gender. So you're merely suggesting that we sanitize and particularize the way we express underlying sexual orientation. Seems a little useless to me. I'd rather have the shorter words, even if they do include "sexual" on the end.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #55
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    hmm... I've never exactly been one for sex follows love... but then again, one comes a lot easier for me than the other

    as far as physical attraction goes, I have gone either way... there are some members of either gender who, just watching them move, can make me physically NEED them in a way

    it doesn't mean that I act on everything... I've settled down now and it's with a man... and my lust for him has grown into love for him... it could have happened with a lady, but it happened with a man

    so, to look at things from the opposite direction from you here, I can understand a universal lust (to quote The Todd from scrubs "the todd appreciates hotness regardless of gender" kind of applies)... love, though, always takes some time from me... love comes from trust and trust takes time to wear through the walls
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #56
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    If we say we are X-sexual, we are trying to control who we love. And we are saying that who we love is based on who we want to have sex with. We are allowing our sexual inclinations (more superficial) to dictate love. Since love is THE primary substance of everything (because God is love and God is everything), this is wrong. So, for these reasons identifying who we are based on some misguided sexual notions, is not Godly.
    It may not be "Godly", but it is responsible, self-aware, and wise.

    Anyway, I've done the "Godly" thing sexually and it scarred me for life. Now I'm an evil atheist with self-awareness and who takes responsibility for my choices.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  7. #57
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Um, but it was determined by her to be the "wrong love" for no other reason than gender. So you're merely suggesting that we sanitize and particularize the way we express underlying sexual orientation. Seems a little useless to me. I'd rather have the shorter words, even if they do include "sexual" on the end.
    I did not get that from her post. Are you assuming here, or do you know something I do not.

    IF she meant what you said here, then I'd say it either IS the wrong love, or she is screwed up sexually (and that can entail many things).
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #58
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post

    I think not being particularly invested in the gender of a potential partner is something you're okay with because you are okay with either gender as a partner. You have historically had relationships with both. A lot of people have a strong gender preference. I don't think it's because they are less hardcore about their faith or less open to the Divine or less anything. I think it's because they aren't bisexual.

    To me, you are making a value judgement about something that is value neutral. Something that none of us can really help very much. It'd be like me giving people a hard time for not liking some of the foods I like, when I, due to genetics that are completely out of my control, am physically unable to taste certain unpleasant flavors. I *know* I can't actually taste certain things so I accept what other people say when they say it tastes bad to them.

    You're bi. That's okay. Good for you. Some of us aren't. Saying we're wrong for that is about the same level of judgmental as saying people are sinners for being gay. It's kind of a sucky thing to do, IMO.
    I think you are making assumptions about me and what I feel here, in the first paragraph. If I've identified with bi in the past it doesn't mean that if I'm hard-pressed I won't state a proclivity one way or the other. The point is that we all have the capacity, if we choose to open ourselves to it, to love anyone. And oftentimes that love, if we love enough, long enough (for it might take some longer than others), will lead to sexual feelings.

    This is a philosophical discussion. I put it in the philosophy section for mostly the reason that it's more about what could be/would be, given an ideal openness and environment, rather than what is currently most popular.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I did say “something like agape”. But I’m not religious and I don’t really understand the meaning it has within Christianity. I was referring to more to the Greek origin, something more like consummate love according to the triangular theory of love. ‘Lust’ doesn’t kick in for me without a big ol’ heaping of deeper connection. I can think someone is incredibly attractive without knowing them- like I can think certain fictional characters are incredibly sexy/alluring- but I don’t personally ‘get’ the value of one night stands or the like. But this is besides the point. There’s a distinction between feeling love/appreciation for someone and wanting to do things naked with them. Maybe there’s something about this Christian understanding of agape and I’m missing the point of the op (if there’s anything to Peguy’s post), but I’m working with the distinction between feeling excited about knowing someone in a loving way and actually wanting to jump on them physically and do physical things to them.

    It’s not a matter of whether or not I’d ‘choose’ to have sex with a woman I developed romantic feelings for- I’m trying to explain that romantic feelings for women just don’t happen for me. I can find female friends enthralling, get mentally or emotionally excited (in a positive way) around them directly because of them and our interaction and yet still feel absolutely no urge to do things naked with them; but I do get that latter feeling sometimes for the same kind of interaction with males. Romantic love does not necessarily follow wherever there are feelings of love and/or appreciation. It seems like maybe it does for you, and it seems like you’re insisting that it would for everyone if they were more honest with themselves? At least it sounds to me like that’s what you’re arguing. I guess it’s totally available for you to insist it’s because I’ve ‘chosen’ a preference and “closed the door” to anything else- that I would develop romantic love for women if I chose to- but I’m telling you that would be just be another version of someone ‘forcing’ an orientation on themselves that doesn’t belong there. If it were really that easy to choose and everyone had the capacity to have romantic feelings towards either sex or gender, there’d be *a lot* of people who would choose not to be gay.

    As a more tangible comparison: I love chocolate. If there’s chocolate* in my vicinity, I have a hard time disciplining myself not have any because I truly enjoy the experience of eating it. There’s nothing forced about it, it’s just a truly organic preference I have. If it’s there, I’ll feel distracted with the feeling of wanting it. On the other hand- something I have absolutely no organic appetite for is sauerkraut. There can be a pile of sauerkraut in front of me and no matter how it’s made I’ll feel no appetite for it. No matter how hungry I am- I can be wholly distracted by feelings of hunger- yet I will not be tempted to eat the sauerkraut. It isn't because I've “closed the door” to it, it’s simply because it does not organically appeal to me. In fact, I’ll often lose my appetite from the smell of it.

    *To make this more directly understandable to the INFPs, this analogy also works with pudding.
    This is really too long for me to read, but I did anyway because of my affection for you What I take from the first part is that there are many types of love. And from the second part that you, like many/most individuals don't feel romantic for a certain type of gender. I understand and respect you in this, I really do. But I also know that given enough circumstances and situations, that would probably not necessarily be always true. And that because of that, perhaps tiny, possibility, we cannot really know what God will present to us. Anything is possible with God. Just because we want a shiny red convertible does not mean we'd not be better off with a 4wd truck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    While I usually hate this kind of hippy dippy shit when it comes from college-aged ninnies who "experimented" and took too many gender studies courses, I think I can tolerate it if it's coming from a place of trying to reconcile same-sex attraction with Christianity (or some form of it.) MORE POWER TO YOU.
    I feel honored. Thank You, O.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthete View Post
    Hm...the love you're describing and encouraging is more of a Platonic nature. Homo- or Heterosexual is more of a matter of chemicals causing one to find a certain sex attractive (sexual love), for whatever reason.
    No. I specified there were many types of loves. And I'm not talking 'love language' either. Some loves will result in the ability/desire to be sexual in the expression of said love, many won't.

    I think what you are getting at, and what would be GREAT to be iterated at this point is that there can be so many kinds of love that never result in sexual desire. Our society seems to think you feel sex for everyone (even idols on tv, etc), but should only feel love for the lucky ones. It's actually the other way round. Or should be.

    We should actually be feeling LOVE for the amount we lust after now, and only feel sexy toward those few we happen to love in a particular way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I agree with this, I understand what you're trying to say now I think, that's a lot clearer
    Oh, thank you bunches, Lark.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    hmm... I've never exactly been one for sex follows love... but then again, one comes a lot easier for me than the other

    as far as physical attraction goes, I have gone either way... there are some members of either gender who, just watching them move, can make me physically NEED them in a way
    You might want to mind that lustfulness. Just sayin. It's opens a door for the devil to ply his wily ways.

    it doesn't mean that I act on everything... I've settled down now and it's with a man... and my lust for him has grown into love for him... it could have happened with a lady, but it happened with a man

    so, to look at things from the opposite direction from you here, I can understand a universal lust (to quote The Todd from scrubs "the todd appreciates hotness regardless of gender" kind of applies)... love, though, always takes some time from me... love comes from trust and trust takes time to wear through the walls
    If love takes time, I respect and honor that. I hope that it gets easier for you to trust, and that you find someone(s) whom you can trust.

    But you really have no business lusting in the meantime. You should work on your inability to trust, which is likely a love issue as well, then when you have become better in that regard, work on loving others. Since you already have a man, you should not need to lust others at all, unless that is something you both agree on (and to go there we'd have to move this to my new aphrodite thread).

    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    It may not be "Godly", but it is responsible, self-aware, and wise.

    Anyway, I've done the "Godly" thing sexually and it scarred me for life. Now I'm an evil atheist with self-awareness and who takes responsibility for my choices.
    Oh. And I've done the non-Godly thing and it's scarred me for life. To each his own.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #59
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    As much as I cared for these women I didn't find the idea is touching or kissing them, even embracing to be arrows in or appealing.
    Is it Cupid of me that I find your post so Eros-ic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #60
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But you must understand it isn't about her being the wrong sex. It's about her being the wrong love.

    That is what I mean. Sex follows love. Not vice versa.
    Yeah, no. It would be nice. Another person would go there. I'm just flattered and don't want to hurt her feelings. Can't and won't.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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