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  1. #111
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    But isn't the converse suggesting that you pick who you 'can' love out of who you are physically attracted to, limiting?
    Is sex a necessary extension with anyone you DO love?

    Is it not possible to love someone without desiring to have sex with them? (I would hope so, when it comes to parents, siblings, friends, otherwise it means sex must follow love in all instances)

    Conversely, is it not possible to love someone AND want to have sex with them?

    Thus if you are not physically attracted to someone, you can still love them as a human being and friend, but not want to have sex with them. And if you are physically attracted to someone, maybe you love them, maybe you don't, but in both cases, maybe you still don't want to have sex. Or maybe you do.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #112
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Is sex a necessary extension with anyone you DO love?

    Is it not possible to love someone without desiring to have sex with them? (I would hope so, when it comes to parents, siblings, friends, otherwise it means sex must follow love in all instances)

    Conversely, is it not possible to love someone AND want to have sex with them?

    Thus if you are not physically attracted to someone, you can still love them as a human being and friend, but not want to have sex with them. And if you are physically attracted to someone, maybe you love them, maybe you don't, but in both cases, maybe you still don't want to have sex. Or maybe you do.

    These are my thoughts to your post. If they do not ring true for you, do not feel you have to think about them or believe them.

    Anything is possible in the realm of human beings. It's about what is best. I have realized my best road is hard to determine on my own without a guide of some sort. I have tried many types of guides in the form of self-help books, dabbling in new age religiosity, and using my intuition. They all help some, but I was lacking a sound framework which I found in God and His word, which acquainted me with Jesus and His life. So, to be my best, I need not only my own flavor and intuition and style(because we are all so different!), but I need a sound framework to follow. I think we all do.

    So what I have come to know (and seems obvious to me, doesn't it to everyone else? ) is that love is the primary emotion and gauge we have for relating with others. There are different kinds of love, and no, not all of them are sexual, but some lend themselves well to becoming sexual, like romantic love, or even brotherly love.?

    Sexual urge is also very primitive to being human, admittedly. Sex is to the body as love is to our soul. I think that love is a purer and more holy emotion, so I think it is more important than sex. You can love and not have sex and still have a wonderful, fulfilling relationship, but you cannot really have sex without love and say the same thing. Can you. It does give you something. Just as anything else you do sensually gives you something. But that deeper something is missing, which is love.


    I'm confused as to your bolded.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  3. #113
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I was trying to break it out into various possibilities, because I find some of your explanations confusing, especially getting into the physical attraction element and your seeming to deny its importance or the fact that different people can have different elements of attraction.

    So, I was saying it is possible to a)Love without being physically attracted to the person, b)Love AND be physically attracted to them, c)Not love and not be attracted, or d)not love and be attracted.

    For myself and probably many others, physical attraction is required to want to have sex with another person; it wasn't clear that you were saying it was or should be required from some of your posts.

    I generally don't disagree with you though re. the importance of love, and the emptiness/pointlessness - on a certain level (for me) - of sex without love. However, I come at that from a very different angle than you.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #114
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I was trying to break it out into various possibilities, because I find some of your explanations confusing, especially getting into the physical attraction element and your seeming to deny its importance or the fact that different people can have different elements of attraction.

    So, I was saying it is possible to a)Love without being physically attracted to the person, b)Love AND be physically attracted to them, c)Not love and not be attracted, and d)not love and be attracted.

    For myself and probably many others, physical attraction is required to want to have sex with them; it wasn't clear that you were saying it was or should be required from some of your posts.

    I generally don't disagree with you though re. the importance of love, and the emptiness/pointlessness - on a certain level (for me) - of sex without love. However, I come at that from a very different angle than you.
    Physical attraction is grouped in with 'sex'. It is inferior to love. We treat it first in our culture. We treat it like it is necessary for love. But it isn't. You can have sex (physical attraction) lead you if you like, as may others. Most people do. If we find our mates based on physical attraction (who we want to potentially have sex with), we run the risk of attaching prematurely or to someone not right for us. Or to hurting or being hurt unnecessarily. And to wasting time, and to lots of other things that are not Godly or enriching. Yes, it might be fun, but it isn't good for us overall.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  5. #115
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Ok. I'm outta here!
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
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  6. #116
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Adios!
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  7. #117
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    welp, what to say ...

    aga, I do think I hear what you are trying to express about love and I don't outright disagree because I think you're trying to say that you've become kind of more open-minded about what you would do if God sent you someone to love that didn't match your preconceived notion of what gender that person should be. That you're trying not to limit how God can work in your life by narrowing the options yourself in the first place.

    Arguably though, by being receptive to either gender sexually is to be bisexual ... know what I mean? If you choose to see sexual attraction as a spectrum rather than specific labels, you personally may be closer to the middle where one contemplates the possibility of a same-sex partner and doesn't feel averse to that contemplation.

    And, if you're saying that no one can predict the future, that perhaps ANYONE could meet another person who could shake your belief about what gender you are sexually attracted to, sure it could happen, who can really argue against that? A hetero could meet a same-sex partner who rocks their world. And vice-versa. It is possible. Since there's no such thing as 100% anything.

    Sex is sex and love is love and love with sex is just about one of the greatest feelings, but let's not get mixed up that love has to enter the sexual equation. And to add God in there too, wow that gets complicated quick, the ultimate threesome, eh? If I feel like it I might come back later and wend my way through your logicz.

    Be aware too that your solid framework is simply your interpretation of that framework.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #118
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    welp, what to say ...

    aga, I do think I hear what you are trying to express about love and I don't outright disagree because I think you're trying to say that you've become kind of more open-minded about what you would do if God sent you someone to love that didn't match your preconceived notion of what gender that person should be. That you're trying not to limit how God can work in your life by narrowing the options yourself in the first place.

    Arguably though, by being receptive to either gender sexually is to be bisexual ... know what I mean? If you choose to see sexual attraction as a spectrum rather than specific labels, you personally may be closer to the middle where one contemplates the possibility of a same-sex partner and doesn't feel averse to that contemplation.

    And, if you're saying that no one can predict the future, that perhaps ANYONE could meet another person who could shake your belief about what gender you are sexually attracted to, sure it could happen, who can really argue against that? A hetero could meet a same-sex partner who rocks their world. And vice-versa. It is possible. Since there's no such thing as 100% anything.

    Sex is sex and love is love and love with sex is just about one of the greatest feelings, but let's not get mixed up that love has to enter the sexual equation. And to add God in there too, wow that gets messy quick. If I feel like it I might come back later and wend my way through your logicz.

    Be aware too that your solid framework is simply your interpretation of that framework.

    I think you make good points. Thanks for contributing to this discussion.

    To the bolded: If you believe in God, and live coram Deo, then that will likely be a necessary part--to love first.

    But everyone has their own reality. This is just what I am coming to believe.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #119
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    To the bolded: If you believe in God, and live coram Deo, then that will likely be a necessary part--to love first.
    Which is a choice ... your own choice.

    But everyone has their own reality. This is just what I am coming to believe.
    Welcome to the realm of subjectivity Fi. Nice to see you stretching your wings here.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  10. #120
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I suppose women are slightly more complicated in this regard. But here's my take on it.

    I've considered my bi-'curiosity' at one point when I've felt genuine feelings of deep care for another person that was of the same sex (although his sexuality itself was debatable, transgender). But whilest I did feel a sort of connection I could best describe as love. I had no sexual feelings for him whatsoever. And trust me when I say I seriously considered about a possible relationship here. Ultimately he was just not what I needed and I not what he needed. And whilest we remained friends, I made our future clear and he ended up in a good relationship with someone that did fit him well, so all it well that ends well.

    Sexuality is and always will be one of the most important factors to consider potential lifelong partners, at least for me. In fact, I think it is the only thing that I could never compromise on.

    In fact, if I did try to force that relationship on me and that person, I would always feel like I would not be able to give him what he truely deserves, which is physical affection. That kind of love only does harm.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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