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  1. #1
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Default True power is taken / true power is given?

    I've heard both claims stated with certainty multiple times. One way to reconcile the contradictions with these statements would be to list and catalogue situations where the gain of power falls into one or the other catalogue. I'm not sure it would satisfy the philosopher in anyone, though.

    There's a common law idea that no-one can grant another person a better title than what they have themselves. For example, in any jurisdiction anyone who's selling stolen merchandize isn't a legitimate owner of the items, and can't grant another person the title of an owner. Also, I can't give you the licence to kill nor you can give that licence to me. There's also the idea that people have the power. If an artist creates music that people like, they're able to cash on it, and they're essentially being granted the right to be rich.

    One might ask where the powers come from. Not everything is consensual, and the higher powers - or those with the money - haven't probably born that way. Many people hold extrodinary powers without anyone having approved of them. They haven't needed to ask anyone if it's okay for them to take their rights. There are lot of self-determinate people who draw their sense of right and wrong from their own will and ability, and they're less likely to ask approval for their actions, whether that's by law or contracts.

    So, I'm saying that there's both kinds of processes in existence. Power is both taken and granted. But, that only begins to explain this situation. Can we get a more satisfying answer for the question about the origins of power?

  2. #2
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Probably not?

  3. #3
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Well, because there is justice also, not just power.

  4. #4
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Well, because there is justice also, not just power.
    Justice is power with an ethical feather on its hat.

  5. #5
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    I'm exploring the idea if a person can be their own justice subject or the power subject. I'm thinking about it in similar way to facts. Many people refer to them, like them, adore them, fear them - but few people study to get facts.

    Perhaps power is something similar: few people find it, but those that do, develop a logistic network or a hierarchy to transmit their power to distant subjects for a wider influence. The idea being - perhaps existing power structures are over-advertised by those who are in control, whereas many people hold their own key to success by acquiring their own power. Not necesessarily power over others, but power over their physical bodies, power over their mind, etc.

    I don't know. Would be cool to throw a few ideas.

    Edit: clarification - I just did a 19 hour work day yesterday - I'm still a bit out of my mind. But.. what I mean by all that.. perhaps people can and do acquire power just from their actions with the reality, not because some social structure grants them the power.

  6. #6
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    You should read Niccolo Machiavelli's "The Prince". The whole book is basically about this concept.

  7. #7
    Earth Exalted Thursday's Avatar
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    True power is given, by someone who is powerful enough to do so. Only those that are powerless steal or try to disparage against those that have more.
    I N V I C T U S

  8. #8
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    You should read Niccolo Machiavelli's "The Prince". The whole book is basically about this concept.
    I have that in my bookshelf, thanks for the hint

  9. #9
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I have that in my bookshelf, thanks for the hint
    What about Robert Green's "The 48 laws of power". That's good too. Also, check out the books by INTJ author Ha Ha Lung. He has several books of this same style.

  10. #10
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I think it is neither, simply the ability to effect action.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

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